Pitchsiding? I presume it's a thing? Is it?

T20, IPL, Test matches or the Ashes, discuss it here.
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johnsheppard
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Hello there,

I see many people talk about courtsiding at tennis. Its not something I'm into or plan to go into but, I guess I find it interesting. What I don't see is many people talking about the same techniques in cricket...I would guess it would be prevalent in twenty twenty matches?

Of what I have read of courtsiding, its pretty much frowned upon by the tennis authorities and they go to great lengths to thwart it. I would imagine the cricket authorities would have a harder time of it due to the size of the playing field.

I also wonder what kind of technologies these peoples use to avoid detection. It provides mild amusement plotting out ways to do it. I think I'd put bluetooth sensors in my shoes through a mobile phone to my own web api or some such nutcase thing. Left tap means a 6. Right tap means he's out...just as long as I don't have to go the toilet....that'd result in a few bad trades...

Thank you kindly for any discussion
Emmson
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Courtsiders/pitchsiders aplenty on cricket and they regularly get absolutely hammered, like the ball is in the air & the prices have changed and presumed its going to be caught…& its dropped & sometimes over the boundary for 6666666666, lbw appeal finger goes up but then its overruled after a review. Then on other occasions the foot is over the line by the bowler & not only is it not out its free hit hit which goes for 6666666666666

Also authorities sometimes have this notion courtsiders are involved in fixing games which is silly so not only do they get removed sometimes they get arrested.
rik
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obviously they will get caught out occasionally by misjudging, video review or whatever, but from watching the markets seems to me that it must be a lot more lucrative for cricket than tennis as turnovers are huge and more stakes seem to be left after boundaries wickets etc
how they are set up exactly and if they have to disguise i dont know but there must be people at the big games
you can tell also some games are on bbc radio which is always just a second or so behind live for any event and its the same for cricket
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johnsheppard
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Emmson wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:59 am
Courtsiders/pitchsiders aplenty on cricket and they regularly get absolutely hammered, like the ball is in the air & the prices have changed and presumed its going to be caught…& its dropped & sometimes over the boundary for 6666666666, lbw appeal finger goes up but then its overruled after a review. Then on other occasions the foot is over the line by the bowler & not only is it not out its free hit hit which goes for 6666666666666
Well I suppose to me that's gambling, not trading. I am definitely no authority, but I would think the way to do it would be trading normally using your best wits, with the speed advantage applied. Or is it that competitive that people HAVE to start gambling on an outcome before it occurs?

Emmson wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:59 am
Also authorities sometimes have this notion courtsiders are involved in fixing games which is silly so not only do they get removed sometimes they get arrested.
I read a book about tennis courtsiding... 'Game Set Cash' ...I gather that's true.... Seemed like a game of cat and mouse. Not real appealing. Or maybe it is for some... I wonder if it was any better/easier with cricket.
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johnsheppard
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rik wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:23 am
obviously they will get caught out occasionally by misjudging, video review or whatever, but from watching the markets seems to me that it must be a lot more lucrative for cricket than tennis as turnovers are huge and more stakes seem to be left after boundaries wickets etc
how they are set up exactly and if they have to disguise i dont know but there must be people at the big games
you can tell also some games are on bbc radio which is always just a second or so behind live for any event and its the same for cricket
I sort of trying to focus on horses, but I've spent a little time looking at T20 Australia games (never had time to really looked at tennis yet). I had a look at cricapi, and many of the score API websites/services. Most of them lag by a good 10/15 seconds. It depends on your strategy I guess, but I am inclined to think the only way you'd get an applicable advantage is being pitchside.

The price movements are quiet large when various events occur.
robsmith
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The ACU are fairly knowledgable about pitchsiding and tend to tolerate it. Wasn’t the case a few years ago
JA89
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I pitchsided the Brisbane Heat v Hobart Hurricanes last night. I've done it before but not for a couple of years.

The market is so quick now, Mujaab bowled a half tracker that got hit for 4 (his only bad ball all night mind you) and I placed my order as the ball pitched in anticipation of it getting smashed and I still missed the price, even though it hadn't even reached the batsman yet.

The market makers are obviously pulling their offers within the 5 seconds but they obviously have a fast feed or someone at the ground themselves. I could see the channel 7 vision in a corporate box and it was about 8 seconds behind.

I did ok in the end but it was surprising to me that the market reacted quicker to boundaries than it did to wickets. A heap of security and police milling around made it difficult too, don't think I'll bother again.
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gazuty
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JA89 wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:20 am
I pitchsided the Brisbane Heat v Hobart Hurricanes last night. I've done it before but not for a couple of years.

The market is so quick now, Mujaab bowled a half tracker that got hit for 4 (his only bad ball all night mind you) and I placed my order as the ball pitched in anticipation of it getting smashed and I still missed the price, even though it hadn't even reached the batsman yet.

The market makers are obviously pulling their offers within the 5 seconds but they obviously have a fast feed or someone at the ground themselves. I could see the channel 7 vision in a corporate box and it was about 8 seconds behind.

I did ok in the end but it was surprising to me that the market reacted quicker to boundaries than it did to wickets. A heap of security and police milling around made it difficult too, don't think I'll bother again.
Interesting. I guess you have the latency of your vps/vpn and 4G connection to factor in to the overall speed equation. Market makers may have someone in the crowd describing the game on a mobile or following an am radio broadcast which could also help with the speed advantage over your vps/vpn.
JA89
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4g/5g reception/latency was surprisingly good, except for the change of innings where it became unusable. A few high pings but by and large they were sub 50ms (to Sydney, not to BF servers obviously lol), smaller crowd than usual probably helped that. VPS latency is a factor but unfortunately unavoidable being in Australia as you know 😞

I sat the last couple of overs out to enjoy the game, would have been very interesting to see the fluctuations after the last ball. Only one replay of the run-out was shown at the ground and you'd swear blind that Steketee had made his ground and it was going to a super over, the entire ground was dumbfounded when it was given out. Was the correct decision ultimately but on the one replay that was shown, it was $1.01 to be a super over.
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Westerner
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JA89 wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:20 am
... I placed my order as the ball pitched in anticipation of it getting smashed and I still missed the price, even though it hadn't even reached the batsman yet.
I've been thinking for a while that some market makers/syndicates are no longer acting on live pictures for pitchsiding. Instead, they are acting on the money coming into the market. They are just too quick and regularly appear ahead of me 1/2 secs at silly prices where I have placed orders.

Have they found a way to front run orders that are in the bet delay order queue?
rik
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Location: London

gazuty wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:18 am
JA89 wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:20 am
I pitchsided the Brisbane Heat v Hobart Hurricanes last night. I've done it before but not for a couple of years.

The market is so quick now, Mujaab bowled a half tracker that got hit for 4 (his only bad ball all night mind you) and I placed my order as the ball pitched in anticipation of it getting smashed and I still missed the price, even though it hadn't even reached the batsman yet.

The market makers are obviously pulling their offers within the 5 seconds but they obviously have a fast feed or someone at the ground themselves. I could see the channel 7 vision in a corporate box and it was about 8 seconds behind.

I did ok in the end but it was surprising to me that the market reacted quicker to boundaries than it did to wickets. A heap of security and police milling around made it difficult too, don't think I'll bother again.
Interesting. I guess you have the latency of your vps/vpn and 4G connection to factor in to the overall speed equation. Market makers may have someone in the crowd describing the game on a mobile or following an am radio broadcast which could also help with the speed advantage over your vps/vpn.
was betting the end of the game last night, exiting finish
"ultrafast" stream is bit more than 2 seconds behind live so thats well good enough for market making
anyone obtaining the feed without having to stream it should be at least another half second ahead
bbc 5 extra covering australian cricket but latency is 7-8 seconds, probably commentating off tv pictures rather than being at the event as for australian open tennis etc
other court siders probably have a more sophisticated setup and do market making as well and optimized for speed better than you
you know your exact bet placement time? might well be 5.5 or 6 second which then makes it hard competing for moving the price first
the market reacting faster to boundaries must be because wicket you know right away whereas some boundaries you arent sure until you watch the flight of the ball for a bit?
Archery1969
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I wasnt aware of this...

- In Victoria, pitchsiding is now a criminal offence after laws passed in 2013.
- Cricket Australia has hired an external bet monitoring company, Sportsradar, to provide intelligence on the nature and volume of betting on domestic matches.
mcfc1981
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Strange 5 live xtra don't use the Aus com for the the Big bash like they do for the WBBL and AUS national team matches(3-4 secs behind live)

as for the market moving quicker on 4s/6s rather then wickets I would put down to people hovering over the boundary price rather then the wicket price as boundaries are more common then wickets.


Last nights match.....Tied match was odds for an age after the 3rd umpire had clearly said ...."bat is in the air I am ready to make my decision"

in the back of my mind I had the old saying.....If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is' and missed out :cry:
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gazuty
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Archery1969 wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:26 am
I wasnt aware of this...

- In Victoria, pitchsiding is now a criminal offence after laws passed in 2013.
The Victorian law doesn’t target courtsiding in my opinion.

Targets conduct that corrupts or would corrupt a betting outcome of an event or an event contingency - see http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/ ... 48/s3.html

There was a person arrested for “courtsiding” at the Australia Open in Melbourne in 2014. The case was dropped by the DPP because there was no reasonable prospect of a conviction. See https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-06/ ... ed/5302508

There was no reasonable prospect of conviction because there was no evidence of conduct to corrupt an outcome, no player bribe or shining a laser or doing something else to "corrupt the outcome".
Last edited by gazuty on Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
JA89
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Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:26 am

Archery1969 wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:26 am
I wasnt aware of this...

- In Victoria, pitchsiding is now a criminal offence after laws passed in 2013.
- Cricket Australia has hired an external bet monitoring company, Sportsradar, to provide intelligence on the nature and volume of betting on domestic matches.
That's just alarmist reporting, the actual law is something like 'engaging in behaviour to corrupt a betting outcome'. They tried to get a courtsider at the Aus Open on that charge but it was withdrawn when they realised they weren't match fixing, just relaying info to a syndicate. So not an offence, but they'll kick you out if they find you doing it because it's against the conditions of entry.
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