Greyhound Musings

We've gone to the dogs.
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wearthefoxhat
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Tomorrow 16.May.25 - Friday is Round 2 of the Greyhound Derby, and part 2 is on Saturday 17.May.25

It's still early to make a judgement as some will improve for their recent run. Ideally, looking for those that improve and maintain consistency, and get some luck with their draw.

Leaning into Chat GPT to produce a rating that takes into account:
  • Trackcraft,
    Split times/first bend performance.
    Calculated times adjusted for going.
    Beaten/winning lengths
    Market sentiment
    Race comments algorithm
    Grade of race (OR 1 for the Derby) - Category 1
These are the top 16 rated, based on their round 1 performances with Ante-Post prices.

Derby Rd 1.png
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wearthefoxhat
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Round 2 completed last night, the Ante-Post market seems to have caught up with the main contenders. (Sorted by Average rating)

The round 3 draw has the top ranked 1 & 3 matched up and ranked 2 & 4 as well. (48 left in the competition)

Looks like early value for Bombay Pat at 10/1.

Top 24 GDerby Rd2.png
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Fugazi
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wearthefoxhat wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:26 am
Just a quick recap.

I focus on certain tracks that appear to have a bias for certain traps, along with certain grades (higher the better) with sufficient form-data to assess. I'll include some other tracks that may help give a true running for each runner. ie: Monmore.

I've noticed a few things.

Some racing managers are better than others at putting a race together.
Better graded races are more consistent. (easier to spot improvers)
Racing managers don't like runners that find chunks of time from nowhere.
Age of a runner is important. The racing manager likes to set up a race for an older runner from time to time.
Not all graded races are the same. ie: Some A4 races are A5 races in disguise, some A2 races are A1 races...etc (down to availability of runners)
Timeform data seems to be better. (comments/tips as a guide only)
Hcaps (HP)/Sprints (D)/Stayers (S)/Middle (B)/Trial (T,T2,T3) form, impacts perfomance when returning to the A graded category.
Visualising/estimating a clean run is important and should be factored into the overall time prediction.
Going allowances aren't totally reliable.
But wouldnt trap bias already modelled into prices? Seems too simplistic a metric
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wearthefoxhat
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Fugazi wrote:
Sun May 18, 2025 11:45 pm

But wouldnt trap bias already modelled into prices? Seems too simplistic a metric

Reckon it would be.

I remember many years back, think it was Romford, when there was a biblical amount of rain overnight, they did well to get the meeting on.

After 3 races, it was clear the outside traps held a big advantage over the inside traps due to the way the water had drained towards the rail and impacted the surface. The on-course bookies were laying 20/1+ on every Trap 1 or Trap 2 runner irrespective of the how good the form was. Traps 5 & 6 all went off short odds and duly won all the races.

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The Greyhound Derby heats have a lot of the fastest dogs drawn and winning in the outside traps, so not really a bias. However, the way the first 2 round draws were made, some of the trainers requested a wide seeding for their runner. The draw wasn't totally random, as it was structured to draw the inside seeds first, then a guarded runner, then the middle seeds, and finally the wide seeded runners.

This guaranteed being drawn in T6, as there were 32 races in round 1 and T5 was vacant for a large number of them. Qualifying in the first 3 was a given if they were half decent.

In the recent round 3 draw, there were no guarded runners, only inside/wide seeded runners drawn. The wide runners were still drawn last of all, but there were more of them that qualified and are now in T5 & T6 with some interesting match ups and some potential shocks ahead.

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wearthefoxhat
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This is how the Saturdays round 3 heats look using the rating.

The rating rewards, speed, trackcraft, form, market sentiments..etc

1st4 Heats.png
2nd4 Heats.png
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The heats are live each week on the gonetothedogs you-tube channel. The replays are on their site too.

Saturday 24th July
First Race 7.10pm
Last Race 9.15pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYmoW9x1hO8

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One thing that could happen this year, as the better runners are seeded wide, is an all (W)ide runner final!

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wearthefoxhat
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Looked at applying the excel sheet to a standard graded greyhound race. Worked out well, abeit a 6/5f. (2.72 on betfair just before the off). The racing post did predict it too, not always a good sign, but does show it's in the right ball park.

11.04 Oxford.png

The rating is higher for those that are anticipated to get a clear run, and have the speed to maximise the chance of a win. Have also got it to the stage where all I have to do is copy and paste the form from the racing post and then the information auto-populates/calculates as shown. (The only input would be the odds and result)

I'll be adding a tissue calculator to it as well, to focus on value betting opportunities going forward.
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wearthefoxhat
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A profitable night @ Towcester in round 3 for the Derby, re- top-ranked qualifiers. (Betfair prices (BSP) are around +12% better)

11 (W)ide seeded runners are in the QF's next saturday, so 6 (W) runners in the final, is still a possibility.

G.Derby Rd3.png
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wearthefoxhat
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Brief update.

Looking at some bread and butter graded races to see how the excel sheet measures up. Added in a Pace rating to assist with a visual element to the race when comparing it with the main rating.

The frustration of value betting! Focussing on the Top 3 ranked, T6 clear chance, but too short, prices on T3 & T1 indicate value, although T1 lacks overall pace for this race set up.

11.18 Romf Card.png
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I watched the race live on ATR TV. (free to view). T6 didn't break that well, good pace far side, T3 came to claim race after fair break, T5 showed EP & fighters pace and tangled with T3 around the last bend and run in. T6 goes on to win.

https://greyhounds.attheraces.com/racecards/today

ATR TV.png
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wearthefoxhat
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Quarter Finals on Saturday 7.10pm first race, all heats live on gonetothedogs (you-tube).

QFinalists.png
Derby QF A.png
Derby QF B.png
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wearthefoxhat
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Greyhound Derby - 2025 Quarter Finals

They say, "You can't eat value".

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Only one top ranked at short odds wins, and the value hunters shot down on the line, when T4 Churchfield Syd got caught by last years winner.

QF1.2.png

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Top ranks no joy, but value had a buffet with all the trimmings. Luck on our side with the fast trapper coming back to nab the outright favourite of the competition in the lucky last.

QF3.4.png
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Summary: Nearly +100 units profit at ISP, likely more @ BSP!

Six wide runners qualify for the semi finals, can't see all 6 in the final now, maybe 4.

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wearthefoxhat
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Greyhound Derby - Semi Final Draw.

Semi Final Draw.png
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wearthefoxhat
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Last year's winner De Lahdedah has shown recent improvement and likely to qualify as one of, if not sole, rails runner for the final. If one of the big guns in the other heat fails to qualify, it could well be around 5/2 in the final.

GreyDerby SFList.png
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Heat One has the potential for trouble in running. Bombay Pat could still qualify, but will need to be on the tails of those boxed around him to do so. De Lahdedah may head Sole Mio with a faster start, if the latter breaks poorly, like it did last time. Slick Sentinel not well drawn in T4 could find trouble if steering wide. Churchfield Syd has been consistent, should lead and qualify. Droopys Bookem's only chance is if there is early carnage, and it nips inside to take advantage. Value bet: T5 Bombay Pat 5/1+ (1.1 low confidence)

GreyD SF 1.png

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Heat Two gives the impression that the 3 wide runners will go around the first bend and duly qualify for the final. Which order they finish in is the quandary. Cheap Sandwiches looks the more likely to win the heat, followed home by Bockos Diamond and Dynamic Force. Prince Naseem should get a clear run on the inside, but the wide runners should clear away by the third bend. Droopys Plunge seems to make hard work of things and if there's carnage, could capatalise. No Better Feelin has done well to qualify so far. Not sure why Bockos Diamond got caught and passed so easily, after taking it up around the second bend in his QFinal. I couldn't back him with any confidence at the current odds.

GreyD SF2.png

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wearthefoxhat
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Here's a picture of Clapton Greyhound Track in 1938.

Clapton 1938.png
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Crazyskier
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wearthefoxhat wrote:
Tue Jun 03, 2025 8:52 pm
Here's a picture of Clapton Greyhound Track in 1938.


Clapton 1938.png
Wow. When men were men, and the fairer sex were delicate and fragrant. And England had the largest empire ever to have existed. How times change. Tragic, really.

CS
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jimibt
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Crazyskier wrote:
Thu Jun 05, 2025 9:22 pm
wearthefoxhat wrote:
Tue Jun 03, 2025 8:52 pm
Here's a picture of Clapton Greyhound Track in 1938.


Clapton 1938.png
Wow. When men were men, and the fairer sex were delicate and fragrant. And England had the largest empire ever to have existed. How times change. Tragic, really.

CS

yeah, it was...
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