Trading Greyhound racing

We've gone to the dogs.
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jimibt
Posts: 4041
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:42 pm
Location: Narnia

MemphisFlash wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:35 pm
The Silk Run wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2024 6:19 pm
I couldn't agree more Tom. Keep it simple, basic fundamentals. Each animal has a 1:6 chance of winning ....
yes that is correct, finally someone gets it.
when i was immersed in BF, i gravitated twds totally mechanical strategy approaches. a typical example might be looking for large deviations in price to counter matches on volume vs price across all runners etc. I had to gather a lot of data to backtest the premise of the ideas as there is just no way that you can pin a tail on a donkey blindly enough times to make it profitable.

so, in my experience, you DO need historic data to validate and refine ideas but in the mechanical world, those are divorced from the nuances of Form/Track/Time of day etc and are focussed on looking at repeated patterns/deviations/reversals etc with a view to applying those across a range of markets. like sniffer says (I was involved in his greys test but he was 100% the brains behind it), you definitively NEED to split out your data into two sets, one for in sample testing (the 80%) and the other remaining 20% to be tested out of sample across your mechanical rule/strategy.

In my mechanical strategies, I had to use the BF API to do this as BA (despite many repeated requests from myself and others), was unable to plumb in any features to allow for backtesting. So to recap, imho, using historical data to assess potential outcomes can be useful as long as you approach it with a mentality of in sample vs out of sample data, otherwise it definitely is a pure backfit and will most likely deliver a negative outcome in live markets.
sniffer66
Posts: 1780
Joined: Thu May 02, 2019 8:37 am

jimibt wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:59 am
MemphisFlash wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:35 pm
The Silk Run wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2024 6:19 pm
I couldn't agree more Tom. Keep it simple, basic fundamentals. Each animal has a 1:6 chance of winning ....
yes that is correct, finally someone gets it.
when i was immersed in BF, i gravitated twds totally mechanical strategy approaches. a typical example might be looking for large deviations in price to counter matches on volume vs price across all runners etc. I had to gather a lot of data to backtest the premise of the ideas as there is just no way that you can pin a tail on a donkey blindly enough times to make it profitable.

so, in my experience, you DO need historic data to validate and refine ideas but in the mechanical world, those are divorced from the nuances of Form/Track/Time of day etc and are focussed on looking at repeated patterns/deviations/reversals etc with a view to applying those across a range of markets. like sniffer says (I was involved in his greys test but he was 100% the brains behind it), you definitively NEED to split out your data into two sets, one for in sample testing (the 80%) and the other remaining 20% to be tested out of sample across your mechanical rule/strategy.

In my mechanical strategies, I had to use the BF API to do this as BA (despite many repeated requests from myself and others), was unable to plumb in any features to allow for backtesting. So to recap, imho, using historical data to assess potential outcomes can be useful as long as you approach it with a mentality of in sample vs out of sample data, otherwise it definitely is a pure backfit and will most likely deliver a negative outcome in live markets.
Good points Jim. And it was an interesting study. Sometimes you need to work things out for yourself rather than blindly accepting what you are told. Experience is learning :)
thepressure
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:01 am

Is the most popular way to manually trade just scalp / swing trade?

are there anymore common strategies?
thepressure
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:01 am

MemphisFlash wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:35 pm
The Silk Run wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2024 6:19 pm
I couldn't agree more Tom. Keep it simple, basic fundamentals. Each animal has a 1:6 chance of winning ....
yes that is correct, finally someone gets it.
Is this really true though, in greyhounds surely the ones who have consistantly ran faster deserve the lower odds? Like football, id always bet on Man City beating most teams , which would be warranted as thats why they are top and consistantly winning?
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MemphisFlash
Posts: 2281
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 10:12 pm
Location: Leicester

Nothing to do with 115 charges against them for fair play.
Fugazi
Posts: 538
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2024 7:20 pm

thepressure wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2024 10:09 am
MemphisFlash wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:35 pm
The Silk Run wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2024 6:19 pm
I couldn't agree more Tom. Keep it simple, basic fundamentals. Each animal has a 1:6 chance of winning ....
yes that is correct, finally someone gets it.
Is this really true though, in greyhounds surely the ones who have consistantly ran faster deserve the lower odds? Like football, id always bet on Man City beating most teams , which would be warranted as thats why they are top and consistantly winning?
Yeah I've never quite been sure what Arch is actually trying to say with this
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decomez6
Posts: 695
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:26 pm

Fugazi wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2024 2:19 pm
thepressure wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2024 10:09 am
MemphisFlash wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:35 pm

yes that is correct, finally someone gets it.
Is this really true though, in greyhounds surely the ones who have consistantly ran faster deserve the lower odds? Like football, id always bet on Man City beating most teams , which would be warranted as thats why they are top and consistantly winning?
Yeah I've never quite been sure what Arch is actually trying to say with this
i think he means :
-you have six boxes
-each contains {x} odds
-{x} is the frequency adjusted to risk reward ratio
-{x} is Not a sequence/series.
-Each box have equal chance of 1/6 appearing in the next sequence regardless of the frequency.

I sound like spaghetti logician :)
i remain corrected.
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Mastermind
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:39 pm

Hey guys,

four days ago I started with gathering data of my bot in the greyhound markets. But to be honest ... I almost traded horse races and am knowing nearly nothing about greyhounds. The bot runs since four full days in the UK Greyhound markets .. and the outcome is +16, -8, -34, +16 .. I think it is overall profitable .. but yeah .. its still practice mode ...and yesterday was a little bit shocking, I hope such days are not often .. the first day and today it did very well. I have to expand the gathering of my data in excel ... and need to know the racetypes ... I googled it and learned Sprint (D), Middle (A), Stayers (S) and Marathon (E) ... but what are the numberrs? What means A5 for example? This I couldn´t find online. Could someone help?

The bot decides if it kicks in in a race or not and I want to sort the data in any possible direction .. racetypes includes, time of the day, racecourse .. the full program. But yes, I need to learn the racetypes .. haha ..

Many thanks in advance

Kind regards,

Martin
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getagrip68
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:56 pm

Mastermind wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2024 11:46 pm
Hey guys,

four days ago I started with gathering data of my bot in the greyhound markets. But to be honest ... I almost traded horse races and am knowing nearly nothing about greyhounds. The bot runs since four full days in the UK Greyhound markets .. and the outcome is +16, -8, -34, +16 .. I think it is overall profitable .. but yeah .. its still practice mode ...and yesterday was a little bit shocking, I hope such days are not often .. the first day and today it did very well. I have to expand the gathering of my data in excel ... and need to know the racetypes ... I googled it and learned Sprint (D), Middle (A), Stayers (S) and Marathon (E) ... but what are the numberrs? What means A5 for example? This I couldn´t find online. Could someone help?

The bot decides if it kicks in in a race or not and I want to sort the data in any possible direction .. racetypes includes, time of the day, racecourse .. the full program. But yes, I need to learn the racetypes .. haha ..

Many thanks in advance

Kind regards,

Martin
The number is the grade level A1 being the top grade for the quickest dogs at the track, A10 being the slowest. Graded racing is for the run of the mill dogs, a bit like handicappers in horse racing, OR is Open Racing (better quality, a bit like pattern races on the horses), HP is handicaps where each trap is placed in different points depending on ability.
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Mastermind
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:39 pm

Ok, thanks for explaining.
chasgeez
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2023 11:24 am

Has anyone used this racing post API I’ve seen? Not sure if it’s just for horses or if it can get you dogs data aswell?
sniffer66
Posts: 1780
Joined: Thu May 02, 2019 8:37 am

chasgeez wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2024 10:01 am
Has anyone used this racing post API I’ve seen? Not sure if it’s just for horses or if it can get you dogs data aswell?
Not in ages as I'm now using something else. But looking at some old code, here's a couple of endpoints to get you started:

$URL = "h t t ps://greyhoundbet.racingpost.com/meeting/blocks.sd?r_date=" & $NewDate & "&view=meetings&blocks=header%2Clist"

(where $NewDate is the date you want to query - you'll have to work out the date format as cant remember if its dd\mm\yyyy etc)

$URL = "h t tp s://greyhoundbet.racingpost.com/card/blocks.sd?race_id=" & $RaceID & "&blocks=card%2Cform%2Cstats%2Ctips&races_ids=" & $RaceID

(Where each $RaceID is pulled from the first meeting POST request)

Lots of good data to be had
chasgeez
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2023 11:24 am

sniffer66 wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2024 12:29 pm
chasgeez wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2024 10:01 am
Has anyone used this racing post API I’ve seen? Not sure if it’s just for horses or if it can get you dogs data aswell?
Not in ages as I'm now using something else. But looking at some old code, here's a couple of endpoints to get you started:

$URL = "h t t ps://greyhoundbet.racingpost.com/meeting/blocks.sd?r_date=" & $NewDate & "&view=meetings&blocks=header%2Clist"

(where $NewDate is the date you want to query - you'll have to work out the date format as cant remember if its dd\mm\yyyy etc)

$URL = "h t tp s://greyhoundbet.racingpost.com/card/blocks.sd?race_id=" & $RaceID & "&blocks=card%2Cform%2Cstats%2Ctips&races_ids=" & $RaceID

(Where each $RaceID is pulled from the first meeting POST request)

Lots of good data to be had
Thank you I’ll have to give it a go
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