Trading or betting automation, and with what data?

We've gone to the dogs.
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ShaunWhite
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

LinusP wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:21 pm
liltbrockie wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:56 am
Definitely exploitable if trading... not so much for winning bets.
You can't make money in the former without the latter.
This! And beautifully put too.
I laboured for way too long under the misconception that "trading" was different to value betting. Once the penny dropped it all fell into place.
rik
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:16 am
Location: London

ShaunWhite wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:02 pm
LinusP wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:21 pm
liltbrockie wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:56 am
Definitely exploitable if trading... not so much for winning bets.
You can't make money in the former without the latter.
This! And beautifully put too.
I laboured for way too long under the misconception that "trading" was different to value betting. Once the penny dropped it all fell into place.
??
Cipobotter
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:40 am

Of course, both are based on understanding which prices are off with respect to the real probabilities (or will be off in the future). I am having problems, as most, in understanding where the clues on the real probs are.
ShaunWhite wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:02 pm
LinusP wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:21 pm
liltbrockie wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:56 am
Definitely exploitable if trading... not so much for winning bets.
You can't make money in the former without the latter.
This! And beautifully put too.
I laboured for way too long under the misconception that "trading" was different to value betting. Once the penny dropped it all fell into place.
Atho55
Posts: 637
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:37 pm
Location: Home of Triumph Motorcycles

If you have some data try comparing the implied probability v what actually happens. Take 2.0 odds. Does it win 50% of the time.

Easier to =FLOOR(BSP,0.01) to lump them together rather than deal with millions of individual BSP`s.

If you are struggling to get your head round it PM me and I will explain further
Cipobotter
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Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:40 am

Hi Atho,

I have done this many many times.
The figure below is derived from the BSP of about 90k UK and AUS races, without factoring the commission.
This is a plot for all the data, but of course I have made it on: a) shorter timespans; b) segmenting by week-day; c) segmenting by track; d) segmenting by fav; e) accounting for volume.... and many other combinations.
Long story short, yes, each day the blue line has bumps above the red line, but all of that regresses to the mean over time, so any strategy on this is doomed to fail for the gambler's fallacy. I have tried also backtesting systems that look where the bumps where yesterday (or last week on the same day, or over n previous days) and use those intervals for the day after, but it does not work in the long term. The BSP data are extremely efficient in the long term. That somehow is a relief, but tells me that there is need of external data to make a viable strategy.
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Cipobotter
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Since I am here I will also share the only thing that I have found that is consistent.
The plot below is the result of a strategy based on a logically-justifiable inconsistency in the SPs distribution in the Aussie dog market. The data are about 20 months worth of races.
The strategy is a betting strategy mixing back and lay, and the results consider the higher commission paid on aussie dogs. The criteria used to determine the dogs to bet are very simple, and the only filter on BSP is loose enough to suggest that this could work by using the near-price close enough to race start.
I am hesitant to implement it at the moment (lots of swings, although they are in the nature of such systems, but I will implement it sooner or later, since it is remarkably consistent), but I think it is interesting because the same does not happen for the UK market, even changing the parameters. I wonder if it is because AUS has more runners, or less volume, or more/less bots....
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Atho55
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Location: Home of Triumph Motorcycles

I wondered if it was because in Aus BF is a secondary player to TAB but in the UK it is a major player and can align the various platforms such as Exchange and Sportsbook. Whatever the reason, I agree that the markets are different.
dm1900
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@cipobotter - join the betfairlightweight slack group, your analytical approach to this will fit right in.
Cipobotter
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Interesting place... fairly unstructured
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Crazyskier
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Cardano wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:31 am
LinusP wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:08 am
Cardano wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:03 pm
I don't think you'll find anyone who is making outright betting automation backing/laying profitable.
Trading either manual/auto is the only way to be profitable.
My answer was intended to mean that I dont think you can be profitable in the long term ( years ) using automation to place only back bets in an event or only lay bets in an event.
I have one greybot place market lay only strategy that is profitable long term, though the drawdowns can be long and somewhat painful, even with 100 races traded per day. But I've never had a losing month overall and am slowly scaling it. The main issue is place market liquidity and how late the money comes.I'm also experimenting with the aussie dogs overnight, which has some insanely short-priced favourites overturned, but the liquidity again can be an issue, so leaving bets in the market until suspend can mean some value can be gained occasionally.

CS
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The Silk Run
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Location: United Kingdom

Little TIP ;) AVOID Friday & Saturday AUS grey market < 2.0 ;)
zmeulescu
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The Silk Run wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:05 am
Little TIP ;) AVOID Friday & Saturday AUS grey market < 2.0 ;)
Why is that? Overrated favourites?
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