Formula 1

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Trader Pat
Posts: 4327
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

Derek27 wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:38 pm
greenmark wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:16 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:26 am
Ayton Senna once said he would drive for the Williams team for free. Somehow he ended up driving for them for a (reportedly) $20M salary!
Good memeory you've got there Derek. Without googling, my memory was he was properly miffed by the relative performance of Williams v McLaren. But that was Senna. Utter focus on winning. And that was Frank Williams too.
I stopped following F1 when Shoemaker just started winning Grand Prixs so I can't really make comparisons but to me, Senna was like a god driving a car - absolute genius. Even when the Williams team with their active suspension was outperforming the McLarens he was still able to push them. The only trouble was, he thought he was god as well! It's funny how nobody has a problem with big-headed people when they actually live up to their ego. :lol:

Senna's relationship with Prost reminds me of my relationship with certain forum members. :lol:
It was almost before my time but it was effectively a different sport back then. Imagine Hamilton and Verstappen in the same team today!

This season has been great but its definitely the exception. Most seasons F1 is barely worthy of being called a sport.
greenmark
Posts: 4948
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 pm

Trader Pat wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:56 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:38 pm
greenmark wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:16 pm

Good memeory you've got there Derek. Without googling, my memory was he was properly miffed by the relative performance of Williams v McLaren. But that was Senna. Utter focus on winning. And that was Frank Williams too.
I stopped following F1 when Shoemaker just started winning Grand Prixs so I can't really make comparisons but to me, Senna was like a god driving a car - absolute genius. Even when the Williams team with their active suspension was outperforming the McLarens he was still able to push them. The only trouble was, he thought he was god as well! It's funny how nobody has a problem with big-headed people when they actually live up to their ego. :lol:

Senna's relationship with Prost reminds me of my relationship with certain forum members. :lol:
It was almost before my time but it was effectively a different sport back then. Imagine Hamilton and Verstappen in the same team today!

This season has been great but its definitely the exception. Most seasons F1 is barely worthy of being called a sport.
Williams was some guy. Totally owned up to the fact it was his fault he ended up in a wheelchair. But then ran an F1 team and was pretty damned successful. I'm not a fan of the concept of having "the right stuff", it's too easily used to mask bad behaviour, but in his situation and with his success you just have to applaud his achievements.
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Crazyskier
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:36 pm

greenmark wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:55 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:56 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:38 pm

I stopped following F1 when Shoemaker just started winning Grand Prixs so I can't really make comparisons but to me, Senna was like a god driving a car - absolute genius. Even when the Williams team with their active suspension was outperforming the McLarens he was still able to push them. The only trouble was, he thought he was god as well! It's funny how nobody has a problem with big-headed people when they actually live up to their ego. :lol:

Senna's relationship with Prost reminds me of my relationship with certain forum members. :lol:
It was almost before my time but it was effectively a different sport back then. Imagine Hamilton and Verstappen in the same team today!

This season has been great but its definitely the exception. Most seasons F1 is barely worthy of being called a sport.
Williams was some guy. Totally owned up to the fact it was his fault he ended up in a wheelchair. But then ran an F1 team and was pretty damned successful. I'm not a fan of the concept of having "the right stuff", it's too easily used to mask bad behaviour, but in his situation and with his success you just have to applaud his achievements.
The only criticism I have was that he made Claire deputy TP instead of his son, who ended up managing the Williams museum.

Sir Frank and Sir Patrick Head were pioneers and it is my privilege to have watched their achievements, from the mid 80s.

CS
greenmark
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Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 pm

Crazyskier wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:55 pm
greenmark wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:55 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:56 pm


It was almost before my time but it was effectively a different sport back then. Imagine Hamilton and Verstappen in the same team today!

This season has been great but its definitely the exception. Most seasons F1 is barely worthy of being called a sport.
Williams was some guy. Totally owned up to the fact it was his fault he ended up in a wheelchair. But then ran an F1 team and was pretty damned successful. I'm not a fan of the concept of having "the right stuff", it's too easily used to mask bad behaviour, but in his situation and with his success you just have to applaud his achievements.
The only criticism I have was that he made Claire deputy TP instead of his son, who ended up managing the Williams museum.

Sir Frank and Sir Patrick Head were pioneers and it is my privilege to have watched their achievements, from the mid 80s.

CS
By all accounts his wife was a very strong individual. Perhaps he saw the same qualities in his daughter.
But, for me, one of the qualities i see in successful people is the ability to surround themselves with excellent folk. And Williams definitely had that ability.
greenmark
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Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 pm

Wow. Max drops it! Where did that come from. Would never have predicted a driver mistake from Max. That's really interesting. I had Max in the box seat but under pressure in Saudi. But he just needed to play the percentages. Now he's gone over the limit and possibly screwed his whole year.
Trader Pat
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

Terrible time to make a mistake! Just hope his gearbox is ok.
Trader Pat
Posts: 4327
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

Right now Hamilton looks big at 1.70 for the championship. If Max's gearbox is ok and he starts third those odds will probably drift a little to 1.85ish but if Max takes a penalty and starts 8th that could be game over. Especially on this track, fighting his way up the order won't be as straightforward as it was in Qatar.

If his gearbox is ok and he starts 3rd though as long as he survives the first lap then his tyres will be 4 laps fresher than Hamilton's. Should give him more options in the race but its almost nailed on there'll be at least one safety car so this race could have a lot of drama.
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Crazyskier
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Trader Pat wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:40 am
Right now Hamilton looks big at 1.70 for the championship. If Max's gearbox is ok and he starts third those odds will probably drift a little to 1.85ish but if Max takes a penalty and starts 8th that could be game over. Especially on this track, fighting his way up the order won't be as straightforward as it was in Qatar.

If his gearbox is ok and he starts 3rd though as long as he survives the first lap then his tyres will be 4 laps fresher than Hamilton's. Should give him more options in the race but its almost nailed on there'll be at least one safety car so this race could have a lot of drama.
I predict a RIOT at 5.30pm UK time.

CS
Trader Pat
Posts: 4327
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

Crazyskier wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:55 am
Trader Pat wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:40 am
Right now Hamilton looks big at 1.70 for the championship. If Max's gearbox is ok and he starts third those odds will probably drift a little to 1.85ish but if Max takes a penalty and starts 8th that could be game over. Especially on this track, fighting his way up the order won't be as straightforward as it was in Qatar.

If his gearbox is ok and he starts 3rd though as long as he survives the first lap then his tyres will be 4 laps fresher than Hamilton's. Should give him more options in the race but its almost nailed on there'll be at least one safety car so this race could have a lot of drama.
I predict a RIOT at 5.30pm UK time.

CS
I'll take that over a procession :)
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Shaung89
Posts: 181
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I stayed on to watch the FP2 sprint after qualifying last night. Some observations and thoughts for today:

FP2 Race Safety cars (approximate)
Lap 1 - Safety Car (turn 1 incident - 3 cars)
4 laps behind SC
Lap 5 - Safety Car (turn 1 incident - 2 cars)
4 laps behind SC
Lap 25 - Safety Car
Finished Sprint Race behind safety car.

Overtaking
Overtaking extremely difficult even after SC's in the FP2 Sprint as there were DRS+Slipstream trains all over the place. Turn 1 the most obvious place to overtake but there were lots of drivers being forced onto the dirty side of the track to overtake then unable to get on the brakes to make the move stick.

Track Limits
Drivers missing the apex at Turn 1 and using the run off (see overtaking above) were all being given 5 second penalties without any leeway from the Race Stewards. With the likelihood of Safety Cars being 'high', this had massive impacts on drivers slipping chunks of places when penalised.

Safety Car
Despite all the Safety Cars, there were only a couple of overtakes into Turn 1. Likely caused by the driver leaving it late to 'restart', the short run to turn 1, and the slipstream train...

Tyre Strategy
If % chance of SC is so high for F1 later ['Safety Car - Yes' is 1.16 on BF], I would expect teams to under-fuel and look for opportunities for 2 pitstops keeping to a Medium-Medium-Soft or Medium-Soft-Soft (depending on degradation). Not pitting under SC conditions could really hurt later on when you need to pit at race speed. It will be a balance of pitting enough to remain fresh vs not pitting too often.

Medium-Hard is an alternative but very risky as pitstops will just close up the field and you could just lose too many places in the straights vs the gain to be had for 1 less pitstop.

Just a note that Hamiltons starting tyre has already done 4 laps more than Verstappens, so they will be hoping for safety cars to help them make a cheap early move.

Team Strategy
A lot will hinge on Verstappens Gearbox. If it's sound then he will start behind Hamilton in P3 and will try to make an early move (albeit this is difficult - see overtaking).

Im predicting there is little change early. If it's Ham-Bot-Ver into turn 1 then expect BOT to stack them up. Not only will this hurt Verstappens tyres but also allow Hamilton to protect his tyres and pit as late as possible in the hope for a cheap stop under Safety Car.

Here's hoping for a good race and it to be as close as ever when we head to the finale!
Trader Pat
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No gearbox change for Verstappen. Lucky boy!
greenmark
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Can't see Bottas protecting Hamilton. Merc have dumped him. He's a multi-miliionaire. I would imagine his mentality is apathetic, at best.
Trader Pat
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

Let the carnage commence!

3 safety cars at least!
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Crazyskier
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:36 pm

HAHA!

Go Max. Red flag = FREE TYRES = Max is in the lead on brand new tyres.

I'm rather chuffed at that!

CS
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Realrocknrolla
Posts: 1903
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It’s a conspiracy 😉
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