NZ weightlifter Hubbard to become first transgender athlete to compete at Games

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Trader Pat
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gazuty wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:35 pm
Read a good article on women’s sport and how to solve this problem of humans who were born with a Y chromosome seeking to compete in sporting contests.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commen ... 936537f754

There should be two events. One for women and one open. As the name suggests open is open to all competitors. Women is restricted to persons born with two X chromosomes.

Think about why a seperate category of sport exists for women and the answer is straightforward.

There is no “unfairness” or exclusion in the open category. All are welcome.

Good idea on paper but I don't think it would work for a few reasons.

You would have transgender women complaining saying it was identifying them as not fully female which is I suppose is the whole point why most of them want to compete as women in the first place. Also would there be enough competitors for an open category and even if there was would anybody be bothered to watch it?

An open category would be a bit like "Mr Olympia" and "Mr Natural Olympia". As the title suggests Mr Natural Olympia is totally drugs free and the competitors get tested. The difference in size between the former and latter competitors can be really stark and as such nobody is that interested in Mr Natural. Would be a bit like having a "Natural Tour de France" & the normal Tour De France. Which one would people watch? The clean or the current juiced up version?
greenmark
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Thanks to Euler for this one. I've been all over it today. From Renee Richards to statistical comparisons between men v women. And my conclusion is people transitioning from one gender to another doesn't give them the right to compete (in a sporting context) with the other gender.
Unless someone says to me that women are only 10% below men in physical performance because of socialogical contraints, then it's a no=brainer that a man transitioning to female can't be allowed to compete with women.
It's the ultimate male arrogance to allow transitioned males to compete with women.
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jimibt
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Trader Pat wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:15 pm
gazuty wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:35 pm
Read a good article on women’s sport and how to solve this problem of humans who were born with a Y chromosome seeking to compete in sporting contests.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commen ... 936537f754

There should be two events. One for women and one open. As the name suggests open is open to all competitors. Women is restricted to persons born with two X chromosomes.

Think about why a seperate category of sport exists for women and the answer is straightforward.

There is no “unfairness” or exclusion in the open category. All are welcome.

Good idea on paper but I don't think it would work for a few reasons.

You would have transgender women complaining saying it was identifying them as not fully female which is I suppose is the whole point why most of them want to compete as women in the first place. Also would there be enough competitors for an open category and even if there was would anybody be bothered to watch it?

An open category would be a bit like "Mr Olympia" and "Mr Natural Olympia". As the title suggests Mr Natural Olympia is totally drugs free and the competitors get tested. The difference in size between the former and latter competitors can be really stark and as such nobody is that interested in Mr Natural. Would be a bit like having a "Natural Tour de France" & the normal Tour De France. Which one would people watch? The clean or the current juiced up version?
i think gazuty was actually meaning that the exisiting TWO categories remain and no new categories are introduced. basically, the current MEN category would be opened up to be an all inclusive category and the WOMEN category would be exclusively for persons born with a double xx chromosone. that way, you allow complete fairness across the board.
Trader Pat
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jimibt wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:07 pm
Trader Pat wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:15 pm
gazuty wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:35 pm
Read a good article on women’s sport and how to solve this problem of humans who were born with a Y chromosome seeking to compete in sporting contests.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commen ... 936537f754

There should be two events. One for women and one open. As the name suggests open is open to all competitors. Women is restricted to persons born with two X chromosomes.

Think about why a seperate category of sport exists for women and the answer is straightforward.

There is no “unfairness” or exclusion in the open category. All are welcome.

Good idea on paper but I don't think it would work for a few reasons.

You would have transgender women complaining saying it was identifying them as not fully female which is I suppose is the whole point why most of them want to compete as women in the first place. Also would there be enough competitors for an open category and even if there was would anybody be bothered to watch it?

An open category would be a bit like "Mr Olympia" and "Mr Natural Olympia". As the title suggests Mr Natural Olympia is totally drugs free and the competitors get tested. The difference in size between the former and latter competitors can be really stark and as such nobody is that interested in Mr Natural. Would be a bit like having a "Natural Tour de France" & the normal Tour De France. Which one would people watch? The clean or the current juiced up version?
i think gazuty was actually meaning that the exisiting TWO categories remain and no new categories are introduced. basically, the current MEN category would be opened up to be an all inclusive category and the WOMEN category would be exclusively for persons born with a double xx chromosone. that way, you allow complete fairness across the board.

My bad, I didn't read it properly
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Crazyskier
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This woke nonsense allowing people to CHOOSE whether they identify as male or female irrespective of their genitalia, is utterly absurd.

What makes it worse is that the tiny militant minority then jump all over social media to accuse anyone of questioning the validity of 'cocks in frocks' as real women of being bigoted, sexist and homophobic!

It's abundantly clear that the physical advantages of male vs female will result in real women being unfairly discriminated against, and cut short the careers of many female athletes.It needs to stop.

I think you should be able to do what you like behind closed doors, but not in wider society. Standards of decency are being eroded in the name of liberalism.

Female athletes around the world are being denied a fair playing field, simply to appease a tiny percentage of either confused or cynical blokes that see an opportunity to achieve what they never could competing as a man!

CS
Trader Pat
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Crazyskier wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:39 pm
Female athletes around the world are being denied a fair playing field, simply to appease a tiny percentage of either confused or cynical blokes that see an opportunity to achieve what they never could competing as a man!
CS

Think its a little more complicated than that :D

Personally speaking I've grown quite attached to my schlong, not sure I'd let someone take an axe to it just to win an Olympic medal!
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Crazyskier
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Trader Pat wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:55 pm
Crazyskier wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:39 pm
Female athletes around the world are being denied a fair playing field, simply to appease a tiny percentage of either confused or cynical blokes that see an opportunity to achieve what they never could competing as a man!
CS

Think its a little more complicated than that :D

Personally speaking I've grown quite attached to my schlong, not sure I'd let someone take an axe to it just to win an Olympic medal!
Quite, however some of these so called 'female' athletes still have male appendages as well as physiology. Talk about having one's cake and eating it!

CS
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gazuty
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jimibt wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:07 pm
i think gazuty was actually meaning that the exisiting TWO categories remain and no new categories are introduced. basically, the current MEN category would be opened up to be an all inclusive category and the WOMEN category would be exclusively for persons born with a double xx chromosone. that way, you allow complete fairness across the board.
Yep that’s it. 👍
rik
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Ha, surely she is not 100% biologically a woman now. What a stupid decision
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Derek27
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I wish I had a sex change when I was at my strongest, I'd have given the women a run for their money. :)
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gazuty
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Derek27 wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:27 am
I wish I had a sex change when I was at my strongest, I'd have given the women a run for their money. :)
This is the very issue at the centre of all this.

Let’s take swimming. In almost every event very very few men are capable of posting a time capable of making an Olympic final. But many men can post a time that would make the women’s final. Let’s take the 100m freestyle at the 2012 Olympics.

The slowest time swam in the 100m women’s final was 54:02. The winner swam 53:28.

If we go to the men’s heats , 45 men swam a faster time than the slowest woman in the final. And 43 men swam a faster time in the heats than the women’s gold medal winner.

You can do this kind of analysis is most sports - it’s very obvious in sports with objective records like times.

So the future of sport (particularly if you start to think about financial rewards slowly building in women’s sport) might start to look like men dominating men’s sport and trans women (aka humans born with a Y chromosome) dominating “women’s” sport. There won’t be any humans with two X chromosomes in “women’s” sport in the foreseeable future, or at least in sport where there is reasonable money/ status to be obtained.

If I was born with two X chromosomes and I was a professional sport player and someone else turns up with a Y chromosome (and had their teenage years with testosterone coursing through their body adding bone and muscle mass that I couldn’t achieve) who then “identified” as a woman and said they were not only competing against me but taking away my spot on the team, local team, state team, national team, Olympic team etc …. well how would I feel about that? And the current nanomoles of testosterone of that other person really doesn’t matter now that they are 10kg of muscle mass heavier, 15 cm taller and can achieve a VO2max no person born without a Y chromosome can achieve.

Reference men’s results https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swimming_ ... _freestyle

Reference women’s results https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swimming_ ... _freestyle
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LeTiss
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The world has turned to shit, and I blame 20 years of social media for it!

It initially gave everyone a voice, but now it's done the opposite......because social media has created a culture war, it has tribalised everything, which invariably results in echo chambers because people block others with opposing views!

Social media created a disease......a disease where people want to show the world how wonderfully righteous they are.
It's created grievous levels of political correctness.
The worst thing though is businesses and institutions also want to show how PC they are, and this has resulted in society sliding down a greasy pole!
Nobody is allowed an honest opinion anymore......we have to be silenced for not succumbing to this disease of woke. We have to be gagged and cancelled.
Laughably, these people actually claim they are the most liberal and tolerant in society......are they heck! They are the opposite of being liberal and tolerant.

It means you cannot oppose the actions Exctinction Rebellion without being deemed a climate change denier!
It means you cannot oppose the motives and political aspirations of BLM, without being deemed racist or having white privilege!
It means you cannot criticise a teacher being hounded out of his job in Batley, or oppose the Halal slaughtering of animals. without being deemed Islamophobic!
It means you cannot oppose trans men competing in women's sport, without being deemed transphobic!

As many of you know......I stand on a rooftop and stick my 2 fingers up to this changing world. I say what I like!

The governing bodies of various sports, and governments themselves, need to get together and stop this bloody farce with trans men in women's sport.
It is destroying the integrity of women's sport, and it is totally unfair on genuine women who have dreamed all their lives of achieving something and have worked bloody hard for it......only to be denied by someone who was born a bloke.

However, we are ALL to blame. We are not doing enough to stand up and say piss off to all those activists and wokies, who have pressurised social media giants, the broadcasting media, governments, businesses and institiutions........that being PC is more important than being honest and having a mind of their own.
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Rollox
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Couldn't agree more well said
sniffer66
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Well said LeTiss !
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gazuty
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LeTiss wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:42 am
The governing bodies of various sports, and governments themselves, need to get together and stop this bloody farce with trans men in women's sport.
It is destroying the integrity of women's sport, and it is totally unfair on genuine women who have dreamed all their lives of achieving something and have worked bloody hard for it......only to be denied by someone who was born a bloke.

However, we are ALL to blame. We are not doing enough to stand up and say piss off to all those activists and wokies, who have pressurised social media giants, the broadcasting media, governments, businesses and institiutions........that being PC is more important than being honest and having a mind of their own.
+1

Well said. It is incumbent on each of us to stop this lunacy.
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