Higher rate premium charge

News, chat and debate about the Betfair betting exchange.
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Westerner
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rik wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:00 pm
Cant control which side is winning with arbing, pay double if Betfair side wins
THIS
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Euler
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You win, you lose, you just can't choose!
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Naffman
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Bog wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:53 pm
The Silk Run wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:58 am
I'm rather confused what all the discussion on here about Premium Charge is. I thought all the Professionals simply arbitrage their transactions, or am I missing something !!!
Sounds easy in theory, but... How do yo do that? In what markets?
I feel like this was a tongue in cheek comment to our mate the furry animal
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Euler
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Naffman wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:42 pm
I feel like this was a tongue in cheek comment to our mate the furry animal
Pretty sure your account has to be in profit to qualify for the charge? :lol:
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Naffman
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Euler wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:03 pm
Naffman wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:42 pm
I feel like this was a tongue in cheek comment to our mate the furry animal
Pretty sure your account has to be in profit to qualify for the charge? :lol:
Surely the 4 tick offset in play is the road to riches ;)
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ilovepizza82
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What I dont understand is why the PC is the same for both traders and punters.
I barely made 10k (just a regular punting, straight bets) in the past few years and they already want me to pay 20% PC...welll sort of because at one point i was almost below 20% of BF "total charges" but now i managed somehow to lose a bit and it looks a little better now.
I understand why it is for traders but come on, 10k profit and 20% PC ?!!!!
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ShaunWhite
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ilovepizza82 wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:23 am
What I dont understand is why the PC is the same for both traders and punters.
I barely made 10k (just a regular punting, straight bets) in the past few years and they already want me to pay 20% PC...welll sort of because at one point i was almost below 20% of BF "total charges" but now i managed somehow to lose a bit and it looks a little better now.
I understand why it is for traders but come on, 10k profit and 20% PC ?!!!!
It just couldn't be done.
Say I 'trade' 3 markets, I fully hedge one, part close another and not close the third. What rate do I pay?
Tbh that's pretty much how I and many others 'trade', everything is straight betting, with many back and lay bets per selection, and you may or may not have a position at the off.
rik
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Effectively your paying less premium charge as a punter as you will naturally generate a higher percentage.
Your win/loss ratio unlikely to be as good as a trader that keeps offsetting bets and just pockets the difference.
You said your hovering around 20% so you will pay more or less nothing and then only pay an extra 20% should you reach 250k profit.
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Euler
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I've actually seen some data on PC and it's interesting. There are only small numbers of higher rate payers and, obviously, more at 20%. But still small in the grand scheme of things.

The main reason for this is that, for most, the 'natural' rate of commission on an account is around 20-25%. There is a marked blip there and it seems to be the nature and structure of the market delivers that amount.
rik
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Euler wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:47 pm
I've actually seen some data on PC and it's interesting. There are only small numbers of higher rate payers and, obviously, more at 20%. But still small in the grand scheme of things.

The main reason for this is that, for most, the 'natural' rate of commission on an account is around 20-25%. There is a marked blip there and it seems to be the nature and structure of the market delivers that amount.
Would you mind sharing the numbers? Around 500 on the higher rate?
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Euler
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Fewer than that. I don't think it would be wise to share too much or my source may clam up. I was surprised by how low both numbers were. But it fell in line with what I already knew about the importance of strike rate on the charge.
rik
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Euler wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:47 pm
The main reason for this is that, for most, the 'natural' rate of commission on an account is around 20-25%. There is a marked blip there and it seems to be the nature and structure of the market delivers that amount.
Still must be fever than the amount of accounts that break about even before commission?
Maybe some of the 20-25% are artificially there to avoid premium charge, cant think of a good reason why that should be a natural winning rate.
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Euler
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Betdaq quoted a similar number in an interview.
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ilovepizza82
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Euler wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:40 pm
Betdaq quoted a similar number in an interview.
WAIt a minute. I had always thought betdaq didnt have any PC... :shock:
rik
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Euler wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:40 pm
Betdaq quoted a similar number in an interview.
But that quote just means that most customers retain more than 25%, not that a lot of customers retain/generate around that amount?
Id still assume that there are a lot more customers basically just losing commission in the long run or maybe losing slightly due to poor bet execution, for example taking bad prices in low liquidity markets etc, betting accounts at least.
Trading accounts can lose at a lot higher rate if they are bad at it
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