6,5% in commission on BF in Denmark

[TheDane]

Hi All.

So in Denmark There is 6,5% in commission of winnings on BF. I wonder if BF wants to close for Danish customers?
I am sure outliers can churn out profit even though they pay such a high commission. I am not too sure if I can, but I will continue to try.
I am just wondering if BF really tries to scale down in Europe and become a crook bookie. A thought I got when I was banned from "promotions from the Sportsbook". Also there is no customer service placed in Denmark and you don´t see or hear any adds whatsoever anymore in the media.'


Best regards from Denmark

[jamesedwards]

I think a lot depends on a legislative impact of national and local betting duty in each particular country. In the UK there is dedicated legislation for exchange betting; "15% of the commission charges charged by betting exchanges to users who are UK people". In countries where exchange betting duty is lumped in with sportsbooks then the tax burden can be significantly higher and therefore requires a higher commission rate.

Presumably costs in smaller markets are greater too due to lower economies of scale.

At least a higher commission rate eats into a decent proportion of any Expert Fee liabilities. Silver lining and all that.

[jamesedwards]

Google AI says you can reduce the commission rate in Denmark to 2% by selecting the relevant Betfair Rewards option. Presumably this is AI talking out of its posterior?

[TheDane]

Thanks James for your answer.
I really cannot recall any Betfair Reward Program.
I must be excluded from it, just like I am from offers from the Sportsbook.

[jamesedwards]

Thanks James for your answer.
I really cannot recall any Betfair Reward Program.
I must be excluded from it, just like I am from offers from the Sportsbook.

This is the UK direct link https://myaccount.betfair.com/rewards/my-rewards

In the UK your account is defaulted to the standard rewards plan which is 6% commission, until you switch to the "basic" 2% plan.

[TheDane]

Thanks James, on your elaborate answer.Very helpful.

When I click the link, this message occur:

"My Betfair-Rewards are not available in my area"


So the question for me, is rather if is it possible to generate betting profit when paying 6,5% of winnings. Outliers like P.W. are capable I am sure, but I am just a human. And taking into account that the commission of winnings in Denmark is 6,5%, sports-betting might not be best the option. I am sure Peter has been told many times that what he has done over the last 20 years was not possible. But the commission structure back then in UK was different when he started from the current situation in Denmark. Remember when Peter said, : You don´t have to be a genius just have a little better strategy than average. The worst outcome ought to be break-even minus commission ") (I am paraphrasing)
I am an investor and trader on the financial markets, but my heart has always been towards sports due to the possibilities on short term outcomes, Betangel community, and all the activity surrounding Betangel with blogs and videos. That together with the possibility to trade from a fairly small account makes it very appealing.

On the financials I am happy just to keep beating the index in the long run.

One thing is to generate profit from betting (absolute possible for many including me)
Another is to generate profit when paying 6,5% of winnings in commission

I will hear BF again if it is really true that their Rewards system is NOT for Danes.

[jamesedwards]

Thanks James, on your elaborate answer.Very helpful.

When I click the link, this message occur:

"My Betfair-Rewards are not available in my area"


So the question for me, is rather if is it possible to generate betting profit when paying 6,5% of winnings. Outliers like P.W. are capable I am sure, but I am just a human. And taking into account that the commission of winnings in Denmark is 6,5%, sports-betting might not be best the option. I am sure Peter has been told many times that what he has done over the last 20 years was not possible. But the commission structure back then in UK was different when he started from the current situation in Denmark. Remember when Peter said, : You don´t have to be a genius just have a little better strategy than average. The worst outcome ought to be break-even minus commission ") (I am paraphrasing)
I am an investor and trader on the financial markets, but my heart has always been towards sports due to the possibilities on short term outcomes, Betangel community, and all the activity surrounding Betangel with blogs and videos. That together with the possibility to trade from a fairly small account makes it very appealing.

On the financials I am happy just to keep beating the index in the long run.

One thing is to generate profit from betting (absolute possible for many including me)
Another is to generate profit when paying 6,5% of winnings in commission

I will hear BF again if it is really true that their Rewards system is NOT for Danes.

Only in the last 10 years or so has Betfair offered 2% commission option in the UK. Prior to that it was always 5%. This was before my time but clearly many people were able to profit long term paying 5% back then.

If your markets are always greened then you're only ever paying commission on relatively small values. eg Assume a 1% edge; making £100 in 10 markets, and losing £99 in another 10, leaves you £10 gross profit minus £65 commission so net -£55. But if you green all markets to +£1 then that leaves you +£20 gross minus £1.30 commission so net +£18.70.

Also consider the commission contribution towards Expert Fee. If you are profitable and making more than £25k gross per year then you are charged the Expert Fee by Betfair. 20% if gross profit is greater than £25k, and 40% if gross profit is greater than £100k. For winning markets, half your commission paid contributes towards the Expert Fee owed so your 6.5% actually becomes a net 3.25%, (compared to a net 1% on the "basic" plan in the UK).

[TheDane]

Hi James.

Thanks for your elaborate answer. Maybe it is pedantic, but if you trade out each time one could argue it is not outright betting but trading per se. And, of course that is justifiable when it is an exchange. But your example makes perfect sense to me, and I found a video where P.W. actually also states the rationale of trading out of positions alone to "even out" the results (correct me if it not true).
I will think about that as an alternative to my old school outright betting (so to speak)

Best regards from Denmark

[ShaunWhite]

I will think about that as an alternative to my old school outright betting (so to speak)

It's more similar than you'd think really. A trade is an outright bet one way, then an outright bet the other way. So either think about the value you're getting at each end... Or more usually, in terms of the probability of that price movement. Anyway you slice it, it the end of the day, you've had a pile of outright bets.

[TheDane]

Hi Shaun.

Yes you are both very right. But the thing is that if your theory implies a lay bet near the start you risk going in-play if have to do an opposite back bet afterwards to hedge out??

I want to lay near the start because II think the price has gone too much down. If I then have to hedge out also, I risk to go in-play, as opposed to let it run as an outright bet, because my back bet has not materialized in time before the off. '
I guess a solution then could be TPD , but that is Next Level Stuff for me...... (Have tried TPD but with little success since I have not been good enough to implement a strategy but played the "speed-game", which got me whipsawed.