That's the one thing that I've never known to go wrong, Betfair's ability to take hundreds of pounds from my account bang on midday every Weds. How come they never cock that one up?
Betfair Premium Charge
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jamesedwards
- Posts: 2309
- Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:16 pm
Yey, perhaps Premium Charge has been abolished!!!
That's the one thing that I've never known to go wrong, Betfair's ability to take hundreds of pounds from my account bang on midday every Weds. How come they never cock that one up?
That's the one thing that I've never known to go wrong, Betfair's ability to take hundreds of pounds from my account bang on midday every Weds. How come they never cock that one up?
Let's hope they don't, because if they do it's not likely to be in your favour.jameegray1 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:38 amYey, perhaps Premium Charge has been abolished!!!
That's the one thing that I've never known to go wrong, Betfair's ability to take hundreds of pounds from my account bang on midday every Weds. How come they never cock that one up?
Found myself reading Peter's blog today.
There really are some great insights and again I want to commend Peter's efforts across many years now. We are talking about someone who has made a living and raised a family out of an interest in trading on betting exchanges - yet still takes the time to enthusiastically provide us his thoughts in a blog, on the forum, on youtube and on twitter. Great stuff.
One of my big takeaways from reading the blog on the dreaded premium charge was an insight into what Betfair gets out of gamblers v traders. Something I had never thought about at all. Yes, Betfair proudly advertises that it loves winners and doesn't ban or scale people back like corporate bookies. And I found that advertising curious given the premium charge. Peter's blog really helped me understand the difference and why gamblers pay so much more in commission. And it in part aligns some elements of the business philosphy of the exchange as more similar to a traditional bookies model (or CFD provider) than I had realised (ie eventually they expect to end up with all your money), perhaps Betfair thought that would happen more slowly on the exchange with a rake of only 5% (vs bookies at 20+%). Betfair probably didn't realise way back in the early days that people like Peter and some others would figure out a way to be full time winners. In the foundation years Betfair would have lapped up the liquidity provided by Peter and some others. And then someone running spreadsheets and analysing outcomes said, hang on, these guys are making out like bandits and we are only getting 5 - 10% of that. The rest, as they say, is history. It's a great read with great insights (as you would expect from Peter - he is genuinely someone who actually knows what he is talking about).
Links to the blog - Part 1 https://www.betfairtradingblog.com/betf ... -part-one/ and Part 2 https://www.betfairtradingblog.com/betf ... ned-part2/
There really are some great insights and again I want to commend Peter's efforts across many years now. We are talking about someone who has made a living and raised a family out of an interest in trading on betting exchanges - yet still takes the time to enthusiastically provide us his thoughts in a blog, on the forum, on youtube and on twitter. Great stuff.
One of my big takeaways from reading the blog on the dreaded premium charge was an insight into what Betfair gets out of gamblers v traders. Something I had never thought about at all. Yes, Betfair proudly advertises that it loves winners and doesn't ban or scale people back like corporate bookies. And I found that advertising curious given the premium charge. Peter's blog really helped me understand the difference and why gamblers pay so much more in commission. And it in part aligns some elements of the business philosphy of the exchange as more similar to a traditional bookies model (or CFD provider) than I had realised (ie eventually they expect to end up with all your money), perhaps Betfair thought that would happen more slowly on the exchange with a rake of only 5% (vs bookies at 20+%). Betfair probably didn't realise way back in the early days that people like Peter and some others would figure out a way to be full time winners. In the foundation years Betfair would have lapped up the liquidity provided by Peter and some others. And then someone running spreadsheets and analysing outcomes said, hang on, these guys are making out like bandits and we are only getting 5 - 10% of that. The rest, as they say, is history. It's a great read with great insights (as you would expect from Peter - he is genuinely someone who actually knows what he is talking about).
Links to the blog - Part 1 https://www.betfairtradingblog.com/betf ... -part-one/ and Part 2 https://www.betfairtradingblog.com/betf ... ned-part2/
Stumbled on this older post while thinking about the 20% and wondering if paying higher daily rate would make the weekly charge easier to bear and level things out a bit.
Took some real numbers from a simple betting strategy and played around with them as shown below.
As hoped for, the charge goes down by a whopping 90%.
Unfortunately it also made the take-home pay go down by 10%.
That was puzzling until I realized that the extra commission paid was effectively being "wasted" since while it all comes off the daily total, only half comes off for the purposes of allowance.
Moral - leave it at 2%
Took some real numbers from a simple betting strategy and played around with them as shown below.
As hoped for, the charge goes down by a whopping 90%.
Unfortunately it also made the take-home pay go down by 10%.
That was puzzling until I realized that the extra commission paid was effectively being "wasted" since while it all comes off the daily total, only half comes off for the purposes of allowance.
Moral - leave it at 2%
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I'm afraid it's slightly more complex than that. You need to consider you're position when your total profits reach £250K. That extra £35 could mean the difference between 40-50% or 50-60%. The majority of traders make more profit with more experience and when you hit the higher rate, 10% of your weekly profits is likely a lot more than what you're saving on the way up.foxwood wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 3:35 pmStumbled on this older post while thinking about the 20% and wondering if paying higher daily rate would make the weekly charge easier to bear and level things out a bit.
Took some real numbers from a simple betting strategy and played around with them as shown below.
As hoped for, the charge goes down by a whopping 90%.
Unfortunately it also made the take-home pay go down by 10%.
That was puzzling until I realized that the extra commission paid was effectively being "wasted" since while it all comes off the daily total, only half comes off for the purposes of allowance.
Moral - leave it at 2%
Yes, quite relevant - the sample just topped the 10% target level but a mixed bag of betting strategies and/or trading may make it worth paying that extra £35 in commission now for benefit further down the line.Derek27 wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 3:48 pmI'm afraid it's slightly more complex than that. You need to consider you're position when your total profits reach £250K. That extra £35 could mean the difference between 40-50% or 50-60%. The majority of traders make more profit with more experience and when you hit the higher rate, 10% of your weekly profits is likely a lot more than what you're saving on the way up.
Probably means each individual should sit down and do their own sums to see what their style and strategies are leading to longer term which OP was wisely looking at.
I'm currently paying 2% and on lifetime commission of about 15%. But my weekly rate on gross profits is 4-8% so I need to keep a close eye on it and not let lifetime rates drop below 10%.foxwood wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 4:29 pmYes, quite relevant - the sample just topped the 10% target level but a mixed bag of betting strategies and/or trading may make it worth paying that extra £35 in commission now for benefit further down the line.Derek27 wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 3:48 pmI'm afraid it's slightly more complex than that. You need to consider you're position when your total profits reach £250K. That extra £35 could mean the difference between 40-50% or 50-60%. The majority of traders make more profit with more experience and when you hit the higher rate, 10% of your weekly profits is likely a lot more than what you're saving on the way up.
Probably means each individual should sit down and do their own sums to see what their style and strategies are leading to longer term which OP was wisely looking at.
A friend sent me a picture of his PC and asked how much he can win before hes on 40%
Is there an easy calculation for this ?
Is there an easy calculation for this ?
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I presume you're talking about net profits before reaching £250K. I don't think there's any way of working it out because it would depend on how much commission and PC he pays, which in turn depends on his profit/loss ratio.