Source Of Funds

News, chat and debate about the Betfair betting exchange.
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jamesg46
Posts: 3769
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

Trader Pat wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:37 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:50 pm

One contentious thread dies down and another one starts. :)

:lol:

You can really enjoy a thread like this when you play absolutely no part in it! :)
Welcome to the thread ;) I'm now exiting, I have no intentions for a battle of who's opinion is right or wrong... I'll just settle with some of us see things differently.
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to75ne
Posts: 2413
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:37 pm

jimibt wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:27 pm
jamesg46 wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:20 pm
to75ne wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:07 pm


if your ok with the government/taxpayer bailing out gamblers your either naive, taking the piss, stupid or playing the devils advocate. i will keep an open mind on which one it is.
I am ok with it.... It's not like It's directly affecting me & good for you for keeping an open mind, it's far more constructive than ranting at people over your personal opinion.
and there endeth another broken thread - whilst i applaude the OP for his/her transparancy, yet again the responses show that we're just a bunch of sharlatans. Hands up who pays tax on their activities from betfair - anyone?? ... OP, well done for asking an awkward question. Forum (in general) pat yourselves on the back for taking a high moral stance, based on HMRC/PAYE contributions - next!!
there is no tax liability on winning as you well know Jim and i am sure you know the arguments and reason why there is not any so whats the point of mentioning it?

as for " high moral stance", why not bail out/underwrite all the losers playing fbots in billy hills, or the sad sods doing their conkers at any given betting shop, casino, greyhound track, race track and so on with taxpayers money, why to some business owner? what's so special about him that the taxpayers of this country should underwrite him especially given the crisis that the country is in, i am sure all those other business owners who are up shit creek who cant get a loan or any reasonable useful help will be happy that the government are underwriting his bets, reckon that will go down well in the telegraph, the sun, the mail etc.
Trader Pat
Posts: 4327
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

jamesg46 wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:49 pm
Welcome to the thread ;) I'm now exiting, I have no intentions for a battle of who's opinion is right or wrong... I'll just settle with some of us see things differently.
This will be about the extent of my involvement :D
jamesg46
Posts: 3769
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

to75ne wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:50 pm
jimibt wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:27 pm
jamesg46 wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:20 pm


I am ok with it.... It's not like It's directly affecting me & good for you for keeping an open mind, it's far more constructive than ranting at people over your personal opinion.
and there endeth another broken thread - whilst i applaude the OP for his/her transparancy, yet again the responses show that we're just a bunch of sharlatans. Hands up who pays tax on their activities from betfair - anyone?? ... OP, well done for asking an awkward question. Forum (in general) pat yourselves on the back for taking a high moral stance, based on HMRC/PAYE contributions - next!!
there is no tax liability on winning as you well know Jim and i am sure you know the arguments and reason why there is not any so whats the point of mentioning it?

as for " high moral stance", why not bail out/underwrite all the losers playing fbots in billy hills, or the sad sods doing their conkers at any given betting shop, casino, greyhound track, race track and so on with taxpayers money, why to some business owner? what's so special about him that the taxpayers of this country should underwrite him especially given the crisis that the country is in, i am sure all those other business owners who are up shit creek who cant get a loan or any reasonable useful help will be happy that the government are underwriting his bets, reckon that will go down well in the telegraph, the sun, the mail etc.
It's reaching to compare somebody who had a business (which in my eyes makes that person capable of rational decision) to some crack head playing a "FOBT" machine. He said he took his position on a market he's knowledgeable in, you and I take them gambles every day. I do get your point about it being with tax payer money but he is/was the tax payer before that got taken away from him... I hope he makes it, so what if some tax money is wasted, look around, it's wasted daily.
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to75ne
Posts: 2413
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:37 pm

because its wrong James, morally wrong.
jamesg46
Posts: 3769
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

to75ne wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:30 pm
because its wrong James, morally wrong.
Morals don't exist in making money, you, I and every other person in this forum prey on people who lose money day in day out through gambling. I don't care how a person makes money... good on them for taking the initiative.
LWBF
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:10 pm

jamesg46 wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:32 pm
MemphisFlash wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:33 pm
let's hope they do then you will be knackered.!!!
Maybe the police will look into it as well.
Was your business really in trouble, do you even have a businees or did you
steal that money from the government and regualr tax paying people.
only scumbags do what you did!!!
Firstly without business generating tax for the purse either through income tax or VAT the government wouldn't have that money to lend out to the very same business that generated it... what a scumbag does Is expect interest back on a loan of tax payers money. Secondly, some of us see Betfair as a viable business opportunity so in a way, it's only adaptation to the structure of his normal business model. Thirdly, we should care more about the big corporate that are actually stealing from the purse, using the furlough scheme to cover holiday pay over the Christmas break (my ex employer did it and they employ thousands.) Also using the furlough scheme to pay for employees to in isolation instead of ssp... there is all sorts of wrongs going on. Somebody adapting to survive isn't worthy of a tongue lashing from you or I. He may well of put in 100s more than he will ever get out through paying his own taxes and creating jobs that also pay taxes... it wasn't his fault he was forced to close up, I for one am routing for him.
Thank-you 👍🏻 and I completely agree 👏🏻
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to75ne
Posts: 2413
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:37 pm

jamesg46 wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:09 pm
to75ne wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:30 pm
because its wrong James, morally wrong.
Morals don't exist in making money, you, I and every other person in this forum prey on people who lose money day in day out through gambling. I don't care how a person makes money... good on them for taking the initiative.
your wrong James.

i don't risk anybody's money except mine. i dont take any risk and have a loan provided by taxpayers (or anybody/institution) backing me up.

i don't prey on anybody, everyone who gets involved in this game does so at their own volition, its down to them to know the rules and risks of the markets they involve themselves in. if they are savvy enough to understand what they are getting into, then they are savvy enough to realise there will be someone on the other side of their bets who are far more experienced then they are.

morals do exist in making money even in this game, and thats real sad "Morals don't exist in making money," if that's the case then cheating is ok, or theft, or extortion, and drug dealing , and insider trading, and money laundering and so on.
jamesg46
Posts: 3769
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

LWBF wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:18 pm
jamesg46 wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:32 pm
MemphisFlash wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:33 pm
let's hope they do then you will be knackered.!!!
Maybe the police will look into it as well.
Was your business really in trouble, do you even have a businees or did you
steal that money from the government and regualr tax paying people.
only scumbags do what you did!!!
Firstly without business generating tax for the purse either through income tax or VAT the government wouldn't have that money to lend out to the very same business that generated it... what a scumbag does Is expect interest back on a loan of tax payers money. Secondly, some of us see Betfair as a viable business opportunity so in a way, it's only adaptation to the structure of his normal business model. Thirdly, we should care more about the big corporate that are actually stealing from the purse, using the furlough scheme to cover holiday pay over the Christmas break (my ex employer did it and they employ thousands.) Also using the furlough scheme to pay for employees to in isolation instead of ssp... there is all sorts of wrongs going on. Somebody adapting to survive isn't worthy of a tongue lashing from you or I. He may well of put in 100s more than he will ever get out through paying his own taxes and creating jobs that also pay taxes... it wasn't his fault he was forced to close up, I for one am routing for him.
Thank-you 👍🏻 and I completely agree 👏🏻
Some people are so righteous that they forget, you take out what you put in. I know nothing about your business or you but I sincerely hope you make it! Keep us posted & best of luck!
jamesg46
Posts: 3769
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

to75ne wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:27 pm
jamesg46 wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:09 pm
to75ne wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:30 pm
because its wrong James, morally wrong.
Morals don't exist in making money, you, I and every other person in this forum prey on people who lose money day in day out through gambling. I don't care how a person makes money... good on them for taking the initiative.
your wrong James.

i don't risk anybody's money except mine. i dont take any risk and have a loan provided by taxpayers (or anybody/institution) backing me up.

i don't prey on anybody, everyone who gets involved in this game does so at their own volition, its down to them to know the rules and risks of the markets they involve themselves in. if they are savvy enough to understand what they are getting into, then they are savvy enough to realise there will be someone on the other side of their bets who are far more experienced then they are.

morals do exist in making money even in this game, and thats real sad "Morals don't exist in making money," if that's the case then cheating is ok, or theft, or extortion, and drug dealing , and insider trading, and money laundering and so on.
I got to "i don't risk anybodies money except mine" & "I don't take any risk" then I stopped reading.
User avatar
Derek27
Posts: 23477
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

jimibt wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:27 pm
jamesg46 wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:20 pm
to75ne wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:07 pm


if your ok with the government/taxpayer bailing out gamblers your either naive, taking the piss, stupid or playing the devils advocate. i will keep an open mind on which one it is.
I am ok with it.... It's not like It's directly affecting me & good for you for keeping an open mind, it's far more constructive than ranting at people over your personal opinion.
and there endeth another broken thread - whilst i applaude the OP for his/her transparancy, yet again the responses show that we're just a bunch of sharlatans. Hands up who pays tax on their activities from betfair - anyone?? ... OP, well done for asking an awkward question. Forum (in general) pat yourselves on the back for taking a high moral stance, based on HMRC/PAYE contributions - next!!
Does anyone know what percentage of commission/PC goes towards paying Betfair's tax bill, or how much the gaming industry is being taxed on their profits? We're all paying tax. It might be a pittance, or it might not. :)
jamesg46
Posts: 3769
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

to75ne wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:27 pm
jamesg46 wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:09 pm
to75ne wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:30 pm
because its wrong James, morally wrong.
Morals don't exist in making money, you, I and every other person in this forum prey on people who lose money day in day out through gambling. I don't care how a person makes money... good on them for taking the initiative.
your wrong James.

Top marks for pointing it out.... but you would be surprised to know that in the perception of most, I usually am wrong... it doesn't deter me from having an opinion though... I guess I'm a stubborn fuckwit ;)
User avatar
Derek27
Posts: 23477
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

jamesg46 wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:43 pm
to75ne wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:27 pm
jamesg46 wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:09 pm


Morals don't exist in making money, you, I and every other person in this forum prey on people who lose money day in day out through gambling. I don't care how a person makes money... good on them for taking the initiative.
your wrong James.

i don't risk anybody's money except mine. i dont take any risk and have a loan provided by taxpayers (or anybody/institution) backing me up.

i don't prey on anybody, everyone who gets involved in this game does so at their own volition, its down to them to know the rules and risks of the markets they involve themselves in. if they are savvy enough to understand what they are getting into, then they are savvy enough to realise there will be someone on the other side of their bets who are far more experienced then they are.

morals do exist in making money even in this game, and thats real sad "Morals don't exist in making money," if that's the case then cheating is ok, or theft, or extortion, and drug dealing , and insider trading, and money laundering and so on.
I got to "i don't risk anybodies money except mine" & "I don't take any risk" then I stopped reading.
You mean you closed your browser, won the argument and the respect of your peers. :)
User avatar
The Silk Run
Posts: 902
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 12:53 am
Location: United Kingdom

jamesg46 wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:35 pm
LWBF wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:18 pm
jamesg46 wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:32 pm


Firstly without business generating tax for the purse either through income tax or VAT the government wouldn't have that money to lend out to the very same business that generated it... what a scumbag does Is expect interest back on a loan of tax payers money. Secondly, some of us see Betfair as a viable business opportunity so in a way, it's only adaptation to the structure of his normal business model. Thirdly, we should care more about the big corporate that are actually stealing from the purse, using the furlough scheme to cover holiday pay over the Christmas break (my ex employer did it and they employ thousands.) Also using the furlough scheme to pay for employees to in isolation instead of ssp... there is all sorts of wrongs going on. Somebody adapting to survive isn't worthy of a tongue lashing from you or I. He may well of put in 100s more than he will ever get out through paying his own taxes and creating jobs that also pay taxes... it wasn't his fault he was forced to close up, I for one am routing for him.
Thank-you 👍🏻 and I completely agree 👏🏻
Some people are so righteous that they forget, you take out what you put in. I know nothing about your business or you but I sincerely hope you make it! Keep us posted & best of luck!
Here, here Jamesg46 well said sir, on point, and current !!! And I do admire admire OP LWBF for sharing his honesty.
LWBF
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:10 pm

Derek27 wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:24 pm
LWBF wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:28 pm
to75ne wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:42 pm



memphis real point is (my opinion) that it is reprehensible to gamble money that as been loaned to you for a specific reason that excludes gambling any of it no matter how knowledgeable you maybe, or how safe you judge your bets to be, that loan as not been granted for gambling on exchange markets or even trading them.
I do not think it is “reprehensible”.

I received the loan legitimately.

Since then (many months later), my circumstances have changed.

I used some of the loan to try and generate income - I didn’t blow it on something material.

I fully intend to pay all of the loan back (with interest) and I will.

My question is/was - can they deny me winnings of a best placed with this money?

There were no source of funds checks prior to placing any bets or when I opened my account.

There is nothing in Betfair’s terms that suggest this isn’t a legitimate source of funds.
My guess, without reading the T&C, is that if any of the loan scheme rules have been broken by placing a bet with part of the loan, that wouldn't be Betfair's responsibility. They may close your account under 'business reasons' but I can't see how they can justify not paying out.
I think I have fairly strong case RE loan terms.
I am more worried about Betfair.
I agree, I don’t see how they can justify it.
I’m sure they won’t like to part with the money though, so who knows...
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