PASSIVE BET DELAY

News, chat and debate about the Betfair betting exchange.
PeterLe
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:19 pm

napshnap wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:03 am
PeterLe wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 10:44 am
...
Perhaps there is a counter argument, but that is where we need to get our thinking caps on :D
... wild Trader 3 with 0s delay appears from nowhere...
..and does what?? :?
LinusP
Posts: 1871
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:45 pm

It’s going to be interesting and I think (if it’s introduced) long term it will be positive, rec players are generally happy with the delay as long as they get matched, nothing worse than waiting 5 seconds and then realising you have missed the price so need to try again.

The delay was introduced to stop the snipers / courtsiders clearing up so why should someone who wants to put up some liquidity be penalised as well.

It was explained by betfair the other night that it’s a big chunk of work (8 months estimate) so there needs to be some positive proof/data in terms of liquidity improvement before it’s approved. However that is almost impossible to quantify so I would give it 4 years :lol:
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napshnap
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:21 am

PeterLe wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 12:40 pm
napshnap wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:03 am
PeterLe wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 10:44 am
...
Perhaps there is a counter argument, but that is where we need to get our thinking caps on :D
... wild Trader 3 with 0s delay appears from nowhere...
..and does what?? :?
Skims the cream then disappears into the night... 8-)
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Derek27
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Location: UK

LinusP wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 12:49 pm
...nothing worse than waiting 5 seconds and then realising you have missed the price so need to try again.
12 seconds in some of the markets I've traded. This could add an extra year to my life. :D
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PDC
Posts: 2272
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:52 pm

Westerner wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 10:16 am
I'm struggling to see the benefit for in-play manual traders.

Happy for there to be a trial but suspect the benefits will mostly be seen by those big into automation. For me this seems to be a change to satisfy market makers with high end risk management tools. Manual traders will get marginalised further.
+1

Also a lot of talk about this improving liquidity but I don't see it on the horse racing markets. I guess it comes down to how you define liquidity. For me increasing the unmatched bets sitting on the exchange is not increasing liquidity. You could argue that that will attract more people to place bets that will actually match.

This sounds like a good measure for what seems to be the ever increasing bots operating in markets but will do little to help improve markets imo.

I hope I am wrong.

As an aside, I dread to think how many months of outages and issues this will cause if it is ever attempted. They struggle to do the basics without screwing up the exchange, this sounds a lot more complicated work.
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Euler
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Location: Bet Angel HQ

I think I'd define liquidity as money that is offered and at-risk and then matched. If it's offered and cancelled you can't define that as 'liquidity'.
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Kai
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Inplay trading and market making without delay?? Big if true.

Image
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Euler
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LinusP wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 12:49 pm
However that is almost impossible to quantify so I would give it 4 years :lol:
I'd said that's probably accurate.

I think most of my questions to Betfair at the moment are around declining liquidity. No amount of technical fiddling is going to resolve that. They seem to have lost their way.
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PDC
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Euler wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:46 pm
I think I'd define liquidity as money that is offered and at-risk and then matched. If it's offered and cancelled you can't define that as 'liquidity'.
That's what I struggle to see this helping? More money will be offered, but what does it do to get more people taking prices. I feel it is market takers that need attracting not market makers.
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Euler
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I'm sort of in agreement with that in general.

Trying technical solutions to paper over the cracks is like building the large hadron collider to boil a cup of tea. Just get some punters through the door and you will have plenty of matching going on.
Seth
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu May 27, 2021 2:25 pm

PDC wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:54 pm
Euler wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:46 pm
I think I'd define liquidity as money that is offered and at-risk and then matched. If it's offered and cancelled you can't define that as 'liquidity'.
That's what I struggle to see this helping? More money will be offered, but what does it do to get more people taking prices. I feel it is market takers that need attracting not market makers.
Market takers only ever bet if there are bets on display and at the moment the x-matcher takes away so much liquidity by matching prices off camera, so to speak. That liquidity never sees light of day on the exchange itself. Bets coming to the market outside the matcher's over-round/under-round book and landing without a delay should hopefully at least increase the impression of liquidity and give market takers something to aim for.
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Kai
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Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:21 pm

They really should do something about it, some of the bet delays in football are stupid long. It's beyond annoying trying to trade around it, not to mention the additional mental delay after you've had a few drinks. Derek will know what I'm talking about!
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Derek27
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Kai wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 4:16 pm
They really should do something about it, some of the bet delays in football are stupid long. It's beyond annoying trying to trade around it, not to mention the additional mental delay after you've had a few drinks. Derek will know what I'm talking about!
When I've had a few drinks, 12 seconds = -5 minutes, when you remember you've opened a trade. :D
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Derek27
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Location: UK

I placed a passive 3-figure back bet on the Reading/Bournemouth match and while I sat and waited, a 4-figure lay flashed once or twice at the same price. I'd like to think under the new proposals there'd be a better chance of my bet being matched (if it was submitted milliseconds before the flasher) but I suspect the flashers will go elsewhere, like dark alleyways in the early hours.
weemac
Posts: 1216
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:16 pm

Isn't flashing just a zero second F.O.K.? When I place one it momentarily appears in the empty odds box and then it's gone in a .......flash.
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