Premium Charge - Historical number lower than last week?

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BFDon
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:56 pm

deestar wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:52 am
BFDon wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:24 am
From my understanding 'other charges' covers the top up from being on a given rate and changes when you move bands. At least that is what happened to me (account set up pre pc)
Yes it is meant to. But as you can see from my statement they have never split it out correctly. I gave up trying to get them to show it correctly after they adjusted it once to an incorrect figure. The two ratios that are important on that statement are

Commission/Gross Profit gives you your underlying com rate (i.e what is your base rate) In my case 19%. Should it get below 10% I'd be on a higher PC rate)

Total Charges/Gross Profit tells you if you need to pay PC in any given week. In my case anything under 40% incurs a PC charge.

There is no way, from the numbers on the statement, of working out your life time Net Profit. You need to keep a tally of that separately.
Yes, i've had issues myself. Taking time to understand the calculations and keeping your own records is crucial
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jamesedwards
Posts: 2234
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:16 pm

napshnap wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:57 am
jamesedwards wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:39 pm
BFDon wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:31 pm
If 'Premium Charge' as in Premium charged paid has fallen, that should never happen unless you've had any ongoing issues with your PC? Msg them and be prepared to be patient
Where would you find Premium Charges Paid please?
Try this, James - viewtopic.php?p=283109#p283109.
Thanks for this info :)
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Derek27
Posts: 23475
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

I wish I knew the true formula for calculating implied commission. I've tried rounding up, rounding down, wanker's rounding, whatever I do it's always a few pence out. :?
Trap1
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2022 2:55 pm

Derek27 wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:01 pm
I wish I knew the true formula for calculating implied commission. I've tried rounding up, rounding down, wanker's rounding, whatever I do it's always a few pence out. :?
I have a script that simply rounds up using the 3% implied comms and pretty much bob on. Problems occur for me because I also bet on the AUS markets etc where the base rate isn't 2% and varies, I can never be arsed to find the actual rates. Plus your lifetime summary affects the final fee as they need to ensure you don't exceed their supposed 40%, depending where that is you may be playing catch up or gain a few pennies.
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Derek27
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Location: UK

Trap1 wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:38 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:01 pm
I wish I knew the true formula for calculating implied commission. I've tried rounding up, rounding down, wanker's rounding, whatever I do it's always a few pence out. :?
I have a script that simply rounds up using the 3% implied comms and pretty much bob on. Problems occur for me because I also bet on the AUS markets etc where the base rate isn't 2% and varies, I can never be arsed to find the actual rates. Plus your lifetime summary affects the final fee as they need to ensure you don't exceed their supposed 40%, depending where that is you may be playing catch up or gain a few pennies.
Thanks, I'll revisit my code. I use a database with the MBR for each course or district so the commission calculation is precise to the penny, it's just the commission generated that's the issue. It may not even be implied commission because if you pay an odd number of pence commission on winnings, that has to be halved and rounded. I've also wondered, if your commission amounts to 14.6 pence, you pay 15 pence but your implied commission could be 7p, 8p or 7.3p, perhaps they don't round but add up the fractions. :)
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Derek27
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Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Premium charge updated early this week. I had a market settled at 00:59 this morning (23:59 GMT) and it hasn't been included in last week's PC!
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jamesedwards
Posts: 2234
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:16 pm

Can you think of any other situation where a company takes thousands of pounds a week from your account and you can't even view a breakdown of how they reached their chosen number.
Trap1
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2022 2:55 pm

Derek27 wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:59 pm
Trap1 wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:38 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:01 pm
I wish I knew the true formula for calculating implied commission. I've tried rounding up, rounding down, wanker's rounding, whatever I do it's always a few pence out. :?
I have a script that simply rounds up using the 3% implied comms and pretty much bob on. Problems occur for me because I also bet on the AUS markets etc where the base rate isn't 2% and varies, I can never be arsed to find the actual rates. Plus your lifetime summary affects the final fee as they need to ensure you don't exceed their supposed 40%, depending where that is you may be playing catch up or gain a few pennies.
Thanks, I'll revisit my code. I use a database with the MBR for each course or district so the commission calculation is precise to the penny, it's just the commission generated that's the issue. It may not even be implied commission because if you pay an odd number of pence commission on winnings, that has to be halved and rounded. I've also wondered, if your commission amounts to 14.6 pence, you pay 15 pence but your implied commission could be 7p, 8p or 7.3p, perhaps they don't round but add up the fractions. :)
How were you calculating comms paid? I was just using the BettingPnL.csv files and work it out by getting the gross figure from the profit and loss

So if negative just multiply that figure by -0.03 and round to 2 decimal places.

If positive I'd work out the gross win by multiplying the pnl figure by 100/(100 minus com rate) and again round up to two decimals then take the gross away from the pnl figure to get my comm paid. I think I did it that way as my account statement and betting profit and loss figures would then tally.

Have you done simple checks to see that "Commission & charges from last week" on the PC page tally with yours? Should help you track down any error between your calc and betfair's.
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Derek27
Posts: 23475
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Trap1 wrote:
Wed Oct 19, 2022 5:40 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:59 pm
Trap1 wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:38 pm


I have a script that simply rounds up using the 3% implied comms and pretty much bob on. Problems occur for me because I also bet on the AUS markets etc where the base rate isn't 2% and varies, I can never be arsed to find the actual rates. Plus your lifetime summary affects the final fee as they need to ensure you don't exceed their supposed 40%, depending where that is you may be playing catch up or gain a few pennies.
Thanks, I'll revisit my code. I use a database with the MBR for each course or district so the commission calculation is precise to the penny, it's just the commission generated that's the issue. It may not even be implied commission because if you pay an odd number of pence commission on winnings, that has to be halved and rounded. I've also wondered, if your commission amounts to 14.6 pence, you pay 15 pence but your implied commission could be 7p, 8p or 7.3p, perhaps they don't round but add up the fractions. :)
How were you calculating comms paid? I was just using the BettingPnL.csv files and work it out by getting the gross figure from the profit and loss

So if negative just multiply that figure by -0.03 and round to 2 decimal places.

If positive I'd work out the gross win by multiplying the pnl figure by 100/(100 minus com rate) and again round up to two decimals then take the gross away from the pnl figure to get my comm paid. I think I did it that way as my account statement and betting profit and loss figures would then tally.

Have you done simple checks to see that "Commission & charges from last week" on the PC page tally with yours? Should help you track down any error between your calc and betfair's.
My P/L is always spot on. But commission generated is always a few pence out. I don't use the Betfair files because the market/event information is incomplete and inconsistent. I take half my commission paid and 1.5% of losses but I think the error is in the rounding.
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Derek27 wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 3:12 pm
Premium charge updated early this week.
Another early one this week, maybe midday Monday is the new norm?
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Euler
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Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

I noticed that also
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

It's there early again, check it at about 00:30 (mon).
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Derek27
Posts: 23475
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

That really is handy. I've just done my accounts, and I forgot the day now ends at midnight and not 01:00.

Commission to the exact penny as well. :shock: Hopefully they've modified their algorithm. :D
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Derek27
Posts: 23475
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Location: UK

Gross profit on PC page wrong by just under £1!!
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jamesedwards
Posts: 2234
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:16 pm

Derek27 wrote:
Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:24 am
Gross profit on PC page wrong by just under £1!!
I built a new spreadsheet last week where you drop in downloads off the 'exchange profit and loss' page.

PC for the week overestimated by just 11p. Not bad! :P
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