Ok, I tell you about one trick using which I wanted to make a lot of money and which is impossible to implement
I think some of you know about missclicks or bettors' mistakes.I've caught such missklicks several times, randomly.
I thought that i can use this and earn regularly, at least 5000 per month.The programmer wrote me a plugin to put down bets immediately from the scanner. B But i misunderstood. It was impossiblE in reality because the truly profitable (erroneous) coefficients are bought up faster than I can see them in the scanner and have time to put down. I started to check how quickly they are buying up and was surprised. I placed a bet that was unprofitable for me on a match that should start in 3 days and saw that the bet was bought up instantly, without even having time to appear in the scanners.
Betfair would never allow someone to scan all 1000+ markets so often to take such bets instantly. There would be a ban for commercial use. Therefore, I believe that the exchange itself puts on favorable odds. Well, this is logical, it makes no sense for them to share profits with me, for example. Perhaps earlier I could make money on this, but now, after all the "optimizations" of Peter Jackson, all the benefits go to the wallet of the exchange and bots.
Betfair unfair?
If you place a bet at poor value it will instantly be taken in most markets. This happened long before bots, streaming and cross-matching. People see value and take it.notangel wrote: ↑Wed Dec 28, 2022 5:19 amOk, I tell you about one trick using which I wanted to make a lot of money and which is impossible to implement
I think some of you know about missclicks or bettors' mistakes.I've caught such missklicks several times, randomly.
I thought that i can use this and earn regularly, at least 5000 per month.The programmer wrote me a plugin to put down bets immediately from the scanner. B But i misunderstood. It was impossiblE in reality because the truly profitable (erroneous) coefficients are bought up faster than I can see them in the scanner and have time to put down. I started to check how quickly they are buying up and was surprised. I placed a bet that was unprofitable for me on a match that should start in 3 days and saw that the bet was bought up instantly, without even having time to appear in the scanners.
Betfair would never allow someone to scan all 1000+ markets so often to take such bets instantly. There would be a ban for commercial use. Therefore, I believe that the exchange itself puts on favorable odds. Well, this is logical, it makes no sense for them to share profits with me, for example. Perhaps earlier I could make money on this, but now, after all the "optimizations" of Peter Jackson, all the benefits go to the wallet of the exchange and bots.
You could also have just used Bet Angel and created a simple bot to look for mistakes and fat fingers maybe even started with the following example and that would of saved you the cost of having a program written
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=19635
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ShaunWhite
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That's not a viable alternative. BA cycles through markets, and 1000s would take ages. Bespoke software, incl mine, responds to market change messages and processes just the market each applies to, usually within a millisecond or two. Its one reason you can't use Guardian for strategies that apply to large numbers of markets simultaneously. And it's the same story with large scale value offers, you need to refresh your offers rapidly when the market changes, not several seconds later. Ie its time based not event based.Dallas wrote: ↑Wed Dec 28, 2022 12:29 pmYou could also have just used Bet Angel and created a simple bot to look for mistakes and fat fingers maybe even started with the following example and that would of saved you the cost of having a program written
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=19635
It is possible to run multiple instances of BAShaunWhite wrote: ↑Wed Dec 28, 2022 3:13 pmThat's not a viable alternative. BA cycles through markets, and 1000s would take ages. Bespoke software, incl mine, responds to market change messages and processes just the market each applies to, usually within a millisecond or two. Its one reason you can't use Guardian for strategies that apply to large numbers of markets simultaneously. And it's the same story with large scale value offers, you need to refresh your offers rapidly when the market changes, not several seconds later. Ie its time based not event based.Dallas wrote: ↑Wed Dec 28, 2022 12:29 pmYou could also have just used Bet Angel and created a simple bot to look for mistakes and fat fingers maybe even started with the following example and that would of saved you the cost of having a program written
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=19635
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ShaunWhite
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- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
You'd need one per market and you're limitted to 10.
It's an observation not a criticism, neither is inherently wrong it's just the job they're designed for. A message oriented system would need a seperate event diary to emulate Guardian's timed events otherwise they wouldn't trigger if the market had no messages, and Guardian would need a seperate concurrent message handler in addition to its looping to respond instantly to messages.
Do you really believe they allow you to do that? Try it in practice and you will receive a letter that your game does not comply with their policy and if you continue you will be banned. Especially now, when bf puts its money on the market to create liquidity
It's strange for me .
It's not secret that with the advent of PaddyPowers holding , the exchange is fighting with the plus ones. They have chosen a policy of reducing the withdrawal of money, even if the players leave the exchange. That is, they do not want money to be withdrawn from circulation. To do this, they fixed every "holes" that were before , introduced cross-match comparison to prevent the opportunity to capitalize on the difference in different markets,put their bot money on all markets so we can't get a freebie odds like earlier
But then why don't they ban such bots that automatically trade in profit for themselves? After all, it is obvious that the owners of bots will not trade if dont have profit. Maybe because these are bots of the exchange ?
It's not secret that with the advent of PaddyPowers holding , the exchange is fighting with the plus ones. They have chosen a policy of reducing the withdrawal of money, even if the players leave the exchange. That is, they do not want money to be withdrawn from circulation. To do this, they fixed every "holes" that were before , introduced cross-match comparison to prevent the opportunity to capitalize on the difference in different markets,put their bot money on all markets so we can't get a freebie odds like earlier
But then why don't they ban such bots that automatically trade in profit for themselves? After all, it is obvious that the owners of bots will not trade if dont have profit. Maybe because these are bots of the exchange ?
Yes I believe that, because that's what I do.notangel wrote: ↑Fri Dec 30, 2022 9:22 amDo you really believe they allow you to do that? Try it in practice and you will receive a letter that your game does not comply with their policy and if you continue you will be banned. Especially now, when bf puts its money on the market to create liquidity
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ShaunWhite
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- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
Yes practice mode has restrictions, neither Betfair nor us want a load on their servers for no benefit. Practice is just to try features not actual 'practice'.notangel wrote: ↑Fri Dec 30, 2022 9:22 amDo you really believe they allow you to do that? Try it in practice and you will receive a letter that your game does not comply with their policy and if you continue you will be banned. Especially now, when bf puts its money on the market to create liquidity
Bots are a big part of the landscape and although you see it a problem there wouldn't be anywhere near the same volume without them. It's why Betfair work closely with the algo trading community and frankly there's more dumb bots than smart ones so it's not all bad.
Bots, algos, AI, machine learning etc have been around for quite a few years now, it's only when people find that out they jump on it as an excuse for why they might not be doing so good.
I'm roughly subscribed to over 500 on a typical day...notangel wrote: ↑Fri Dec 30, 2022 9:22 amDo you really believe they allow you to do that? Try it in practice and you will receive a letter that your game does not comply with their policy and if you continue you will be banned. Especially now, when bf puts its money on the market to create liquidity
By default the Betfair streaming subscription API limits you to 200 markets per connection, unless you request an upgrade. A typical strategy process needs 2 connections (Market & Order connection). So under the 10 connection limitation you could easily subscribe to 1000.
A single BA Guardian instance I suspect counts as 1 client with a Market & Order connection, I don't know the internals, but I suspect when configured with Streaming enabled, the BA rules backend for each strategy when it gets "cycled" around simply pumps the subscription messages since the last cycle through the rules...
I'm sure i've probably not got everything accurate there, but I know the likes of Euler, Shaun, Dallas and co will chip in
I do love a technical discussion (can you tell ?!)
Here you go notangel, some reading for you: https://docs.developer.betfair.com/disp ... Stream+APInotangel wrote: ↑Wed Dec 28, 2022 5:19 amOk, I tell you about one trick using which I wanted to make a lot of money and which is impossible to implement
I think some of you know about missclicks or bettors' mistakes.I've caught such missklicks several times, randomly.
I thought that i can use this and earn regularly, at least 5000 per month.The programmer wrote me a plugin to put down bets immediately from the scanner. B But i misunderstood. It was impossiblE in reality because the truly profitable (erroneous) coefficients are bought up faster than I can see them in the scanner and have time to put down. I started to check how quickly they are buying up and was surprised. I placed a bet that was unprofitable for me on a match that should start in 3 days and saw that the bet was bought up instantly, without even having time to appear in the scanners.
Betfair would never allow someone to scan all 1000+ markets so often to take such bets instantly. There would be a ban for commercial use. Therefore, I believe that the exchange itself puts on favorable odds. Well, this is logical, it makes no sense for them to share profits with me, for example. Perhaps earlier I could make money on this, but now, after all the "optimizations" of Peter Jackson, all the benefits go to the wallet of the exchange and bots.
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ShaunWhite
- Posts: 9731
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
Your software might
But generally yes, anyone can subscribe to any number of markets. And the cost of entry isn't prohibitive with a lifetime api licence being just £300 and Betfair providing the necessary api wrapper and example code in several languages.
Just like those who spend hours at their screens perfecting their craft, people who are prepared to work hard exploring the tech shouldn't be critised for having some sort of advantage. Bots or bespoke software are no more unfair than someone more adept at race reading or being fanatical about sport.
Anyways, there's cash money involved, nobody is playing nicely.
Yeah one-off £300 is cheap, I made that in one day last weekShaunWhite wrote: ↑Fri Dec 30, 2022 9:04 pmYour software might
But generally yes, anyone can subscribe to any number of markets. And the cost of entry isn't prohibitive with a lifetime api licence being just £300 and Betfair providing the necessary api wrapper and example code in several languages.
Just like those who spend hours at their screens perfecting their craft, people who are prepared to work hard exploring the tech shouldn't be critised for having some sort of advantage. Bots or bespoke software are no more unfair than someone more adept at race reading or being fanatical about sport.
Anyways, there's cash money involved, nobody is playing nicely.