Commission effect and comparison

[stueytrader]

Just wondering, if you are a punter on exchanges, why does anyone choose to pay more than the 2% that Daq offer (i.e. by using BF instead)?

That's without even mentioning the PC issues at BF (though know some of that is creeping across to Daq).

But basically if you were sticking bets up, why on earth not choose Daq?

[jimibt]

Just wondering, if you are a punter on exchanges, why does anyone choose to pay more than the 2% that Daq offer (i.e. by using BF instead)?

That's without even mentioning the PC issues at BF (though know some of that is creeping across to Daq).

But basically if you were sticking bets up, why on earth not choose Daq?

i've not really used BetDAQ in anger but imagine there could well be cases of liquidity, even if only *punting* a few hundred on a race. would be interested in hearing more seasoned opinions as there are obviously some stats based stratgeies that are full on punt, rather than trading, so maybe it's worth discussing the caveats.

[stueytrader]

Just wondering, if you are a punter on exchanges, why does anyone choose to pay more than the 2% that Daq offer (i.e. by using BF instead)?

That's without even mentioning the PC issues at BF (though know some of that is creeping across to Daq).

But basically if you were sticking bets up, why on earth not choose Daq?

i've not really used BetDAQ in anger but imagine there could well be cases of liquidity, even if only *punting* a few hundred on a race. would be interested in hearing more seasoned opinions as there are obviously some stats based stratgeies that are full on punt, rather than trading, so maybe it's worth discussing the caveats.

There is some liquidity issue, but I'd say more recently a lot less problem in that respect (i.e. enough money around to match these days). Prices seem virtually identical too from what I can make out, though timing may be slightly different for when money is around in markets.

[spreadbetting]

Just wondering, if you are a punter on exchanges, why does anyone choose to pay more than the 2% that Daq offer (i.e. by using BF instead)?

That's without even mentioning the PC issues at BF (though know some of that is creeping across to Daq).

But basically if you were sticking bets up, why on earth not choose Daq?

If you're a punter PC wouldn't be a problem but getting matched usually is. The majority of punters simply want to get on, not sit at the PC waiting for any worthwhile liquidity to arrive. Been a long time since I used Betdaq as I found them useless for various reasons but I just couldn't justify the time spent waiting for worthwhile money and to also maintain two banks (BF+BD). It's all very well sticking bets up but if they're not being matched it becomes a bit of a time waster.

[stueytrader]

Just wondering, if you are a punter on exchanges, why does anyone choose to pay more than the 2% that Daq offer (i.e. by using BF instead)?

That's without even mentioning the PC issues at BF (though know some of that is creeping across to Daq).

But basically if you were sticking bets up, why on earth not choose Daq?

If you're a punter PC wouldn't be a problem but getting matched usually is. The majority of punters simply want to get on, not sit at the PC waiting for any worthwhile liquidity to arrive. Been a long time since I used Betdaq as I found them useless for various reasons but I just couldn't justify the time spent waiting for worthwhile money and to also maintain two banks (BF+BD). It's all very well sticking bets up but if they're not being matched it becomes a bit of a time waster.

The prices basically follow around whatever is getting matched currently on BF. So don't really see the issue in that respect.
Plus, not all punters are idiots who want a quick fix bet, there's plenty serious ones who will wait to take a price at the right time. Surely, they are much better off paying just 2% on profits...??

[stueytrader]

Last race at Wincanton (midweek nothing race, as example) just matched well over quarter million pre race on Daq - surely enough to satisfy most punters wanting a bet on?

[spreadbetting]

The prices basically follow around whatever is getting matched currently on BF. So don't really see the issue in that respect.
Plus, not all punters are idiots who want a quick fix bet, there's plenty serious ones who will wait to take a price at the right time. Surely, they are much better off paying just 2% on profits...??

I guess you'd have to ask them, if they're not idiots they must have some reason for not using it. Maybe their bets just sit there like a sore thumb

For me it just wasn't workable waiting around for prices to get matched, which only seemed to be when arbs were created against BF. If it's working fine for you the last thing you want over there is a load of clued up traders/punters, you should just milk it whilst you can.

[megarain]

The volume calc is different on both exchanges.

Betdaq is based on price .. if u match 50 at 5.0, volume is 200 .. so, u cant really compare like for like.

Betfair would be 100 .. 50 for layer, 50 for backer.

U could argue both methods are a little devious.

[stueytrader]

The prices basically follow around whatever is getting matched currently on BF. So don't really see the issue in that respect.
Plus, not all punters are idiots who want a quick fix bet, there's plenty serious ones who will wait to take a price at the right time. Surely, they are much better off paying just 2% on profits...??

I guess you'd have to ask them, if they're not idiots they must have some reason for not using it. Maybe their bets just sit there like a sore thumb

For me it just wasn't workable waiting around for prices to get matched, which only seemed to be when arbs were created against BF. If it's working fine for you the last thing you want over there is a load of clued up traders/punters, you should just milk it whilst you can.

I think it's come on a bit to be honest since it was just an arbing vs BF type of exchange. The prices are essentially almost identical most of the time, especially nearer the off times. It does take a little longer still than BF, more money nearer the off, but if punting that would hardly matter.

In terms of possible prices and volume there's not much between the two exchanges, the only real difference is % commission, which is much better from Daq than BF.

Still not really seen any reason someone wanting a bet would choose to pay more to do exactly the same bet...it's paying more for almost identical products.

[jimibt]

I'm still wondering if you'd be able to exploit the full capacity if for example, you had a series of *bets* that you wanted to place over half a dozen races, each for a few hundred each. i guess tbh, the only way is to try it -worst case sceanrio being that your planned strategy still worked but only matched on a %age of your stake..

[spreadbetting]

In terms of possible prices and volume there's not much between the two exchanges, the only real difference is % commission, which is much better from Daq than BF.

Still not really seen any reason someone wanting a bet would choose to pay more to do exactly the same bet...it's paying more for almost identical products.

If that were truly the case surely all successful traders woud be clambering to get over there, too.

You also mention the % commission is much better but if you have a relatively large turnover, which is much easier for punters than traders, you can get your comm rate down to the 2% BD charge anyway. I guess we can all speculate but you'd have to be asking those punters why to get the full answer.

[invisiblelayer]

Punters don't have a problem getting on betting late into racing markets on the purple site but it's dead and a waste of time if trying to get on lunchtime, forget mornings also. You'll only get matched if putting bad bets up so some cross exchange bot can match you on Betfair. I've used them a few times last few months and found this out and was exactly the same 10 years or so ago when used them, one thing I will say though had same day payments back so pretty rapid. Good viable option for traders and punters betting late into markers

[stueytrader]

I'd agree that the early market is a lot weaker for sure than BF.

But that simply means picking your time to get on (moving to a little later) - a massive hardship when it could mean masses less in commission paid long run?

Yes, it is possible to grind down to that level of 2% on BF, but only if you are very large scale - majority of punters would be nowhere near that.

[spreadbetting]

But savvy punters want to get on from their own value prices not when the prices are fully formed at the off. Plus I think you're overestimating how hard it is to get a lower comm rate. As a trader you'd be taking small wins/losses but as a punter it's full wins and stakes losses.

Do you do all your punting and trading now on Betdaq?

[stueytrader]

Not all, but certainly moving more recently towards it.

Partly because a lot of my traded positions leave greens/reds, which are certainly far heavily more 'taxed' when done at BF.