In running BA issues

We were all new to Bet Angel once. Ask any question you like here and fellow forum members promise not to laugh. Betfair trading made simple.
Post Reply
Kazbet
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:08 pm

Apologies for what might seem a bit basic but I'm getting a costly problem when trading in running horses using the ladders.

Basically I'm watching money flow and races and place a back bet when I see conditions look right and then offset that to lay at 3 ticks less and auto green up.

The back is manually placed at second best price.

During the last two Saturdays what has been happening is that the lay is being placed and matched before the back bet has even been placed.

This then leaves me with a lay which I have to get out of quickly and if Im not quick enough it can be a big loss if the horse improves as I thought would happen.

My default settings are
Offset bet with greening and stop.
Offset is 3 ticks
Stop trigger is 8 ticks place at 10 (in case what is expected does not happen ,accept the loss)
Place fill or kill bets 20 seconds delay.

Running version V 1.58
Streaming at 20 ms
Refreshing ladders at 200ms

Why is a Lay bet being placed before the back is matched ?

If any one can give me any pointers I would be grateful.
User avatar
Dallas
Posts: 22671
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:57 pm
Location: Working From Home

Just enable fill or kill, to prevent the offset being placed till the opening bet is filled and ensure you have the blue cog uncrossed on the settings profile you are using to enable it and other Global settings

https://www.betangel.com/user-guide/off ... tages.html
https://www.betangel.com/user-guide/bet ... tings.html
Kazbet
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:08 pm

I have ticked the fill and kill box 20 seconds delay and have the cog un crossed.
Worked fine on that last race and on my first dozen or so on Saturday. Then it just starting placing lay as I place a back bet.
User avatar
Dallas
Posts: 22671
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:57 pm
Location: Working From Home

Kazbet wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:30 pm
I have ticked the fill and kill box 20 seconds delay and have the cog un crossed.
Worked fine on that last race and on my first dozen or so on Saturday. Then it just starting placing lay as I place a back bet.
Providing those settings are enabled it will work 100% of the time, it's only if one or both are not enabled will it place both bets at the same time including if you switch settings profile to one where you don't have them both enabled
Kazbet
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:08 pm

Thanks for the reply. I will have to double check those settings dont change somehow during a busy afternoon.
Works fine midweek, but something has gone wrong on a couple of races during the weekends.
Ill have to save a log and see if anything shows up I guess.
User avatar
Dallas
Posts: 22671
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:57 pm
Location: Working From Home

Kazbet wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:47 pm
Thanks for the reply. I will have to double check those settings dont change somehow during a busy afternoon.
Works fine midweek, but something has gone wrong on a couple of races during the weekends.
Ill have to save a log and see if anything shows up I guess.
The log would show if the bet was placed with any global settings ie, fill/kill, offsetting etc
If you can remember race where it happened and it was recent you might still have the log in your saved logs area (which get saved automatically on exit)
https://betangel.kayako.com/article/101 ... -log-files
Kazbet
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:08 pm

Sorry to be a pain. Checked everything and it all looks fine.
Does off setting in batches possibly cause this issue.
Currently Im offsetting say £30 (usually) in batches of ten so my guess is that in a volatile market ,the first £3 is matched and for some reason the full lay is placed.
Then the back cannot match as the horse speeds up leaving a partially unmatched back and a full matched lay.
User avatar
Dallas
Posts: 22671
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:57 pm
Location: Working From Home

Kazbet wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:43 pm
Sorry to be a pain. Checked everything and it all looks fine.
Does off setting in batches possibly cause this issue.
Currently Im offsetting say £30 (usually) in batches of ten so my guess is that in a volatile market ,the first £3 is matched and for some reason the full lay is placed.
Then the back cannot match as the horse speeds up leaving a partially unmatched back and a full matched lay.
No, if you were offsetting in batches in your above example only the £3 would be offset
Kazbet
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:08 pm

Thanks I've checked again and the only other possibility is user error.
So Ill hold my hands up and take it on the chin.
On both occasions, I was just running the In play trader live for the first weekend and I could /may have clicked on something without knowing.
Hope there is not a time limit for being a newbie :D
Takes some learning this lark but Im getting there.
Specallez88
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:03 am

It does this for me as well. I'm convinced it's a bug.

Will randomly decide to place two lay bets. No settings changed, betting in play. Will work for a while and then place two costly lay bets.

How can an automation work fine for 50 minutes and then decide to place two lay bets, without anything being touched or changed?
User avatar
Dallas
Posts: 22671
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:57 pm
Location: Working From Home

Specallez88 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:56 am
It does this for me as well. I'm convinced it's a bug.

Will randomly decide to place two lay bets. No settings changed, betting in play. Will work for a while and then place two costly lay bets.

How can an automation work fine for 50 minutes and then decide to place two lay bets, without anything being touched or changed?
Betfair apply an in-play delay on all in-play bets so to prevent unwanted bets being triggered before it reaches the market and can be seen by any 'Number of matched bets' conditions you might have you'll also need to ensure you are using a 'Fill/kill Bet time' condition
https://www.betangel.com/user-guide/fil ... _time.html

Also check you have your markets refreshing fast enough in Guardian, this should be 20ms for in-play markets with restrict refresh being used especially if you have more than 50 markets in Guardian, a slow refresh rate can sometimes cause double triggers to occur
https://www.betangel.com/user-guide/upd ... cling.html

Once you have something set up correctly it will work 100% of the time
Kazbet
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:08 pm

Dallas wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:23 pm
Specallez88 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:56 am
It does this for me as well. I'm convinced it's a bug.

Will randomly decide to place two lay bets. No settings changed, betting in play. Will work for a while and then place two costly lay bets.

How can an automation work fine for 50 minutes and then decide to place two lay bets, without anything being touched or changed?
Betfair apply an in-play delay on all in-play bets so to prevent unwanted bets being triggered before it reaches the market and can be seen by any 'Number of matched bets' conditions you might have you'll also need to ensure you are using a 'Fill/kill Bet time' condition
https://www.betangel.com/user-guide/fil ... _time.html

Also check you have your markets refreshing fast enough in Guardian, this should be 20ms for in-play markets with restrict refresh being used especially if you have more than 50 markets in Guardian, a slow refresh rate can sometimes cause double triggers to occur
https://www.betangel.com/user-guide/upd ... cling.html

Once you have something set up correctly it will work 100% of the time
This happened again today
Back bet was not matched but the lay was placed and matched . Luckily I greened up but I was looking at a big loss
Fill or kill 20 sec delay refreshing at 250ms.The only market running. Is the refresh rate the cause ??

29/11/2021 12:35:26: Market changed to Kempton 29th Nov - 12:50 1m Hcap
29/11/2021 12:51:29: Market has been suspended
29/11/2021 12:51:31: Market is in-play
29/11/2021 12:51:31: Market has been unsuspended
29/11/2021 12:51:40: £ 30.00 Back bet placed on Agent of Fortune at 6.6. Entirely unmatched when it initially reached the market. Ref: 252051865693 ( Offsetting by 3 ticks. Stop at 8 ticks. Place stop at 10 ticks )
29/11/2021 12:51:41: £ 30.00 Lay bet placed on Agent of Fortune at 6. Fully matched at 5.99216666666667. Ref: 252051867135
29/11/2021 12:51:55: Greened up Agent of Fortune by Laying 3.20 at 5.7
29/11/2021 12:53:08: Market has been suspended

Have I got something wrong here ??
Went back to manual back ,lay and green up last week which worked fine but for some reason I keep getting lays matched before the back has been matched when using the offset bet with greening function.
User avatar
Euler
Posts: 24700
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

It's the in-play delay. But the time the first bet reached the market the priced had already moved and triggered the second which was matched as the price has moved enough to trigger it leaving the first still in the market.

It's not recommended to use a stop inplay, especially a tight stop.
Post Reply

Return to “Bet Angel for newbies / Getting started”