Coding help for profitable pattern

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Derek27
Posts: 23477
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

jamesg46 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:51 am
Derek27 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:25 am
jamesg46 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:02 am
[

I blame my passive aggressive personality :lol:

Imo you cant give away an "edge" as a manual trader, every market is unique & dictated by supply & demand. My passive aggressive personality gets frustrated with this ABCD mentality. An edge isn't a fixed asset & it really does piss me off when people portray it that way.
This thread is about automation. :)
Well done Einstein, aren't you a clever boy...

I'm not sure if you noticed but the OP was about automation, the conversation then changed & schemes started being discussed, then comparisons were brought up.... by now I'm assuming that you've noticed a subtle change in conversation but incase you haven't, let me break it down for you.

1:Automating a pattern.
2:Pyramid Scheme.

See the difference Derek? But yeah, this thread is about automation wink, wink.
The scheme was a comparison to giving away successful automation, which loses its edge. You then made a direct comparison to manual trading, Peter's videos, ABC mentality and applied it to manual traders when the question was only raised regarding automation and giving your strategy to a coder!
jamesg46
Posts: 3769
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

Derek27 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:21 pm
jamesg46 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:51 am
Derek27 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:25 am

This thread is about automation. :)
Well done Einstein, aren't you a clever boy...

I'm not sure if you noticed but the OP was about automation, the conversation then changed & schemes started being discussed, then comparisons were brought up.... by now I'm assuming that you've noticed a subtle change in conversation but incase you haven't, let me break it down for you.

1:Automating a pattern.
2:Pyramid Scheme.

See the difference Derek? But yeah, this thread is about automation wink, wink.
The scheme was a comparison to giving away successful automation, which loses its edge. You then made a direct comparison to manual trading, Peter's videos, ABC mentality and applied it to manual traders when the question was only raised regarding automation and giving your strategy to a coder!
It doesn't matter if it's automation or manual my point remains the same. We could use the shared files section as a comparison if you like. Is a front runner bot just a scheme because it's been shared, has it stopped horses from front running? Have people who used that strategy lost their edge because of the file?

Front runners, Dobs, swing trading, scalping or whatever is just a strategy. The application is where the edge is. These things don't just stop happening because the reality was shared. A front runner today won't decide to not front run because more people are betting on it doing so.

An edge is made up of application of a strategy, adaptation to circumstances & good money management, either manually or automated.

I went down the path of comparing it to manual trading because I mentioned early on in one of my comments that patterns are usually based on price action. I do believe that most price action trading is likely to be done manually (most, not all) because of the complexity of building that sort of automation & I've not seen many or if at all any conversation about it.

I'm done anyway, people will believe what they want & it's been the general mindset for as long as I can remember so me banging on about it won't be of any use.
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The Silk Run
Posts: 902
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 12:53 am
Location: United Kingdom

I would support your statement James. Some, not all systems, strategies no matter what exposure they have in the public domain still remain effective, and consistent.
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Derek27
Posts: 23477
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

jamesg46 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:50 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:21 pm
jamesg46 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:51 am


Well done Einstein, aren't you a clever boy...

I'm not sure if you noticed but the OP was about automation, the conversation then changed & schemes started being discussed, then comparisons were brought up.... by now I'm assuming that you've noticed a subtle change in conversation but incase you haven't, let me break it down for you.

1:Automating a pattern.
2:Pyramid Scheme.

See the difference Derek? But yeah, this thread is about automation wink, wink.
The scheme was a comparison to giving away successful automation, which loses its edge. You then made a direct comparison to manual trading, Peter's videos, ABC mentality and applied it to manual traders when the question was only raised regarding automation and giving your strategy to a coder!
It doesn't matter if it's automation or manual my point remains the same. We could use the shared files section as a comparison if you like. Is a front runner bot just a scheme because it's been shared, has it stopped horses from front running? Have people who used that strategy lost their edge because of the file?

Front runners, Dobs, swing trading, scalping or whatever is just a strategy. The application is where the edge is. These things don't just stop happening because the reality was shared. A front runner today won't decide to not front run because more people are betting on it doing so.

An edge is made up of application of a strategy, adaptation to circumstances & good money management, either manually or automated.

I went down the path of comparing it to manual trading because I mentioned early on in one of my comments that patterns are usually based on price action. I do believe that most price action trading is likely to be done manually (most, not all) because of the complexity of building that sort of automation & I've not seen many or if at all any conversation about it.

I'm done anyway, people will believe what they want & it's been the general mindset for as long as I can remember so me banging on about it won't be of any use.
There's no need to get your knickers in a twist just because we don't understand each other. It's not the first and won't be the last time.
ShaunWhite wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:55 pm
jamesg46 wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:20 pm
Personally I think differently about it. Patterns are usually based on price action. More people trading the same pattern or price action the stronger it becomes... maybe getting out though is where people start cutting each others throats.
It's like a pyramid scheme, everyone rides the wave and you take it in turns to be the schmuck who's paying. :)
So it's the word 'scheme' you don't like. Perhaps we interpreted the above post differently. To my mind, the comparison to a pyramid scheme relates to the possible results of sharing a successful automated strategy, not the unscrupulous people running it.

I understand what you're saying about the application of a strategy being more important than the strategy, but that's not always the case. A bot can be simple and straightforward with fixed entry and exit points. If you look back at the OP it wasn't clear if that was the case.
jamesg46
Posts: 3769
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

Derek27 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:19 pm
jamesg46 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:50 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:21 pm

The scheme was a comparison to giving away successful automation, which loses its edge. You then made a direct comparison to manual trading, Peter's videos, ABC mentality and applied it to manual traders when the question was only raised regarding automation and giving your strategy to a coder!
It doesn't matter if it's automation or manual my point remains the same. We could use the shared files section as a comparison if you like. Is a front runner bot just a scheme because it's been shared, has it stopped horses from front running? Have people who used that strategy lost their edge because of the file?

Front runners, Dobs, swing trading, scalping or whatever is just a strategy. The application is where the edge is. These things don't just stop happening because the reality was shared. A front runner today won't decide to not front run because more people are betting on it doing so.

An edge is made up of application of a strategy, adaptation to circumstances & good money management, either manually or automated.

I went down the path of comparing it to manual trading because I mentioned early on in one of my comments that patterns are usually based on price action. I do believe that most price action trading is likely to be done manually (most, not all) because of the complexity of building that sort of automation & I've not seen many or if at all any conversation about it.

I'm done anyway, people will believe what they want & it's been the general mindset for as long as I can remember so me banging on about it won't be of any use.
There's no need to get your knickers in a twist just because we don't understand each other. It's not the first and won't be the last time.
ShaunWhite wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:55 pm
jamesg46 wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:20 pm
Personally I think differently about it. Patterns are usually based on price action. More people trading the same pattern or price action the stronger it becomes... maybe getting out though is where people start cutting each others throats.
It's like a pyramid scheme, everyone rides the wave and you take it in turns to be the schmuck who's paying. :)
So it's the word 'scheme' you don't like. Perhaps we interpreted the above post differently. To my mind, the comparison to a pyramid scheme relates to the possible results of sharing a successful automated strategy, not the unscrupulous people running it.

I understand what you're saying about the application of a strategy being more important than the strategy, but that's not always the case. A bot can be simple and straightforward with fixed entry and exit points. If you look back at the OP it wasn't clear if that was the case.
Honestly I don't have my knickers in a twist, least not yet anyway. I don't want to debate it any more for three reasons. People don't care, they will believe what they believe & I just look like the ranting lunatic banging on about something that others perceive differently.

Just like the age old "the markets are efficient, you cant make money" line, people with that mindset will not have it any other way so it's just pointless.
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