Hello everyone,
I have a question about something which is happening a lot with my trading/practice.
How best to attack staking?
I have been using Tick size and the other staking (BA) methods to try to find what works with my style, currently I am using tick size as it gives best what I would like (even tick size/even p/l per ticks)
I am mostly laying at what I perceive to be the floor with a trailing stop blah blah blah
When I lay odds of say 4.00 my profit/loss is way out of line with ones that I win/lose at 2.00 or shorter, by a big difference.
Also it looks like the traded profit column? (ladder green number) shows the hedged p/l loss (on shorter prices horses) rather than on the longer horses who seem to show the unhedged p/l in the traded profit column.
I am probably reading it wrong but it does seem that the green figure on the ladder on shorter horses is the actual hedged p/l not the unhedged.
Overall the issue I am having is that despite having a winning day in terms of ticks/trades.
I have blown all my profit from 5 trades on one bad trade of 4 ticks, when I won 4/6/8 ticks etc on other trades.
How do others deal with this?
Is it as simple as I need to manually change the stakes on the shorter prices ones?
I understand that over time, all the short prices ones would have their own p/l SR and the others would have theirs but it means that if I am having a naff time with the shorter prices ones the longer ones would not cover it.
Any help would be appreciated, to see how others tackle this?
Tick size
Having the same amount per tick across the whole ladder and book may not be the best staking because average traded range varies.
IMO newbies should aim to be as consistent as possible by having the same £ risk per trade whether that's 5 or 10 ticks away.
As traders become profitable and limited by liquidity, they will then have to adjust their staking to whatever the market can cope with. This will allow them to get the most out of the market which becomes more important than consistency at that level
IMO newbies should aim to be as consistent as possible by having the same £ risk per trade whether that's 5 or 10 ticks away.
As traders become profitable and limited by liquidity, they will then have to adjust their staking to whatever the market can cope with. This will allow them to get the most out of the market which becomes more important than consistency at that level
Hi again,
Would you know of a chart that would point me to how to stake correctly at each odds range?
Say if I want to risk 1 point per trade, I am not sure how I do this manually as my limited understanding is that staking £1 lay at 5.00 would produce a different 8 tick profit to a £1 lay at 8.00 that has 8 ticks move?
Should I lay by liability? Would that create an even profit/loss over the same amount of ticks?
Do people use servants to set up their own staking or am I massively over complicating/misunderstanding something?
Thank you
Would you know of a chart that would point me to how to stake correctly at each odds range?
Say if I want to risk 1 point per trade, I am not sure how I do this manually as my limited understanding is that staking £1 lay at 5.00 would produce a different 8 tick profit to a £1 lay at 8.00 that has 8 ticks move?
Should I lay by liability? Would that create an even profit/loss over the same amount of ticks?
Do people use servants to set up their own staking or am I massively over complicating/misunderstanding something?
Thank you
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ShaunWhite
- Posts: 9731
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
Staking by liability (back and lay) would smooth out the differences.
But try not to get too distracted by points per trade or pounds per tick etc because ultimately it makes little difference.
Can I suggest set your preset stake to say £1. And when you've placed your bet you can see how the pl changes up and down the ladder. If you want more risk then bet again otherwise don't. The stake when you take a position should be entirely about your confidence in that specific moment rather than something you've decided upfront. By setting your default to £1 you'll hopefully end up thinking in terms of 1 2 or 3 click bets depending how you feel. And by having a small default you can reduce your position a little at a time too.
It's not really the case that people stake X.... And then just close later. It's much more fluid than that, adding and reducing your psition bit by bit, always being mindful of your overall maximum risk so perhaps set your preset to 1/4 of the maximum you feel comfortable with. You'll see on Peter's videos he often uses presets of say 64 128 256 512 specifically for him to be able to scale in and out of positions. Just stick to what he does and don't stress about this x/tick stuff too much.
But try not to get too distracted by points per trade or pounds per tick etc because ultimately it makes little difference.
Can I suggest set your preset stake to say £1. And when you've placed your bet you can see how the pl changes up and down the ladder. If you want more risk then bet again otherwise don't. The stake when you take a position should be entirely about your confidence in that specific moment rather than something you've decided upfront. By setting your default to £1 you'll hopefully end up thinking in terms of 1 2 or 3 click bets depending how you feel. And by having a small default you can reduce your position a little at a time too.
It's not really the case that people stake X.... And then just close later. It's much more fluid than that, adding and reducing your psition bit by bit, always being mindful of your overall maximum risk so perhaps set your preset to 1/4 of the maximum you feel comfortable with. You'll see on Peter's videos he often uses presets of say 64 128 256 512 specifically for him to be able to scale in and out of positions. Just stick to what he does and don't stress about this x/tick stuff too much.
Thank you ShaunWhite.
Yeh I have seen Peter use a confidence - $ ratio when trading and also the averaging out of a losing trade which is really neat so I will try implement this into my trading rather than just oggling at it.
I guess it simply takes time to build a confidence baseline to work from when implementing that style of staking, I think the first few 100 trades I have watched/traded have felt like riding a roller coaster in the dark making it difficult to know really, Dr Variance is not much help at this stage either ha
Thanks for the advice happy trading
Yeh I have seen Peter use a confidence - $ ratio when trading and also the averaging out of a losing trade which is really neat so I will try implement this into my trading rather than just oggling at it.
I guess it simply takes time to build a confidence baseline to work from when implementing that style of staking, I think the first few 100 trades I have watched/traded have felt like riding a roller coaster in the dark making it difficult to know really, Dr Variance is not much help at this stage either ha
Thanks for the advice happy trading
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ShaunWhite
- Posts: 9731
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
'Shaun' is fine... we're all friends here (mostly
). If you keep to small stakes per click (say £1) and fully expect to lose a little rather than win, that should take away the pressure. I think you'll actually feel more in control if you're able to trade in a more realistic way. Eg put £1 down, if you feel you got the direction right then add another, if not put £1 the other side and exit for a few pence of red. The danger of course is being pushed around by the market but it's a much more natural review/act/repeat mental loop, with a hedge as the start of the race approaches to tidy up any imbalance you might have.
At this stage don't put any expectation on yourself to win, if you plan to spend a fiver to learn some lessons, then losing £4 will feel like winning, Then next time you might lose £3....blah blah blah.... You get the idea. Be happy with a small improvement each session and eventually it should tip into profit, then your stakes will naturally grow as £1 becomes too little to keep you focused, and you're on your way.
Hi Diggy,Diggy1884 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 5:43 pmHi again,
Would you know of a chart that would point me to how to stake correctly at each odds range?
Say if I want to risk 1 point per trade, I am not sure how I do this manually as my limited understanding is that staking £1 lay at 5.00 would produce a different 8 tick profit to a £1 lay at 8.00 that has 8 ticks move?
Should I lay by liability? Would that create an even profit/loss over the same amount of ticks?
Do people use servants to set up their own staking or am I massively over complicating/misunderstanding something?
Thank you
If you want to stake so that you have a fixed amount per tick after hedging regardless of the odds, use this staking:
<2 = x100
2 - 3 = x50
3 - 4 = x20
4 - 6 = x10
>6 = x5
This will give you £1/tick after hedging, so you can adjust acccordingly to what you want to risk.
Hope that helps