£25 a day - A beginner's journey

[beermonsterman]

We all done the Journey The profitable have spent not 30 days but years and its not gonna just be handed to newbie. You get great advice and assistance in the forums. If one watches Peters videos and really take them in one will learn, i dont belive in laying Backing Dobbing etc etc, i Trade, and not for targets, its about how many times you can read a market (Order Flow) open the TRADE and CLOSE the Trade and Hedge £2 greened up 20 times a day do the maths just saying

I'm still here, 12 years later (not continuously) still trying to reinvent the wheel.

Did you become profitable?

I started my Trading back in 2007 Here is my Journey through the past what feels like forever.
just read this whole post and thought I would stick this on the end .....................


Well i dont know where to start but here goes..
Thanks to bet angel and all the hidden gems in here ive finally started to see how to put all the signes together to achieve a trade that actually makes sense ive put years into making some sense of the makets and what they offer and by simply cold trading what i see has turned a corner..
Here is what ive found in short term..
Their is no golden ticket just screen time market after market and putting things in perspective that i understand in my own head sounds weired i know just that now i see their is many pointers to a trade which whithout hard work would be impossible
Pre race Horse trading ...
the amount of money waiting to be matched
order of the market
graphs
time scales
market volume
selection volume
price of fav 2nd fav 3rd fav and more ...
Basically all im saying is when all this can make sense and all the stars are ligned up you get a reason to enter a trade .
I am miles away from perfecting this but just want to put this out their as my personal jurney and im greatfull to bet angel for all the info in this forum i may well make a trader one day but who knows ive blew bank after bank and quit then come back but now my mind set has altered i now take it easy and baby step my way back to the only thing that i truely enjoy doing with my spare time ..
PS..
I love automation allthough it can not replace my trading as its too complicated to automate but it certainly points me in the right direction in a way of signals to a trade .
I may sound green still but ive climbed a few rungs now and on my way up "This time next year Rodney" .....lol i dont care about money right now..
I just want to crack trading then money can flow after ..
In a nut shell i just want to say i genuinly believe with hard work and plenty of screen time trading will pay off eventually ..
Thanks Bet Angel and community .

[beermonsterman]

I'm still here, 12 years later (not continuously) still trying to reinvent the wheel.

Did you become profitable?

I started my Trading back in 2007 Here is my Journey through the past what feels like forever.
just read this whole post and thought I would stick this on the end .
Also I should add that my level of education was very limited if any at all so you could say I'm a late bloomer but very stubborn ....

Well I dont know where to start but here goes..
Thanks to bet angel and all the hidden gems in here I've finally started to see how to put all the signs together to achieve a trade that actually makes sense I've put years into making some sense of the markets and what they offer and by simply cold trading what I see has turned a corner..
Here is what I've found in short term..
Their is no golden ticket just screen time market after market and putting things in perspective that i understand in my own head sounds weird I know just that now I see their is many pointers to a trade which without hard work would be impossible
Pre race Horse trading ...
the amount of money waiting to be matched
order of the market
graphs
time scales
market volume
selection volume
price of fav 2nd fav 3rd fav and more ...
Basically all I'm saying is when all this can make sense and all the stars are aligned you get a reason to enter a trade .
I am miles away from perfecting this but just want to put this out their as my personal journey and I'm grateful to bet angel for all the info in this forum I may well make a trader one day but who knows I've blew bank after bank and quit then come back but now my mind set has altered I now take it easy and baby step my way back to the only thing that I truly enjoy doing with my spare time ..
PS..
I love automation although it can not replace my trading as its too complicated to automate but it certainly points me in the right direction in a way of signals to a trade .
I may sound green still but I've climbed a few rungs now and on my way up "This time next year Rodney" .....lol I dont care about money right now..
I just want to crack trading then money can flow after ..
In a nut shell i just want to say I genuinely believe with hard work and plenty of screen time trading will pay off eventually ..
Thanks Bet Angel and community .

[beermonsterman]

Sorry Guys made a bit of a mess above

[Frogmella]

Nope

[Fugazi]

Strangely, I make more a less exactly £25 a day. Ranges between perhaps -£70 to + £70. Max drawdown maybe £-120 over 6 months. But I think I'm probably the only one doing so (many make lots lots more, but I imagine I probably a lot more variation day to day)

BUT the reason it's so consistent is I've hit a ceiling for now. I work fulltime and just don't get the time to analyse and improve. It's also not secure enough to cut my hours, especially as half of that is on dogs which could be banned any day.

I would have bitten your hand off if someone said I could make £25 a day at this automated. Now I'm here, I'm kinda in no mans land and its just nice beer money until I find a way to scale.

[ShaunWhite]

,
I make more a less exactly £25 a day.

especially as half of that is on dogs which could be banned any day.

An extra 9 grand a year tax free isn't to be sniffed at. If your strategies doesn't use fundamentals then have you tried them on other market types?

Markets in 2024
UK Horseracing 10,153
AU Horseracing 31,813
UK Greyhounds 53,140
AU Greyhounds 46,965
Roughly 142,000

[Kai]

Making any profit is still impressive in the first year

We've witnessed far more challenging beginnings

It sounds like a solid foundation to build upon

[ShaunWhite]

Making any profit is still impressive in the first year

Especially so given the lack of 'how to' when it comes to automation. Manual guys have a ton of content and play the ladder game with the TV on for 12 months. Not a lot said about what the first year of quant trading looks like. Anyone doing it will know it's just as hard, maybe even harder.

[Kai]

Not a lot said about what the first year of quant trading looks like. Anyone doing it will know it's just as hard, maybe even harder.

Not sure I'm qualified to make that comparison or how comparable it is, but I'm sure every market angle has its own challenges.

The forum hivemind is very experienced as it's a part of the broader market hivemind, but especially as a newcomer it's really tricky to tap into that, so realistically the most one can hope for is finding random breadcrumbs of insight.

Good advice only goes so far without actionable guidance, so IMHO full credit to anyone who manages to piece those breadcrumbs together and turns them into something actionable

[Fugazi]

,
I make more a less exactly £25 a day.

especially as half of that is on dogs which could be banned any day.

An extra 9 grand a year tax free isn't to be sniffed at. If your strategies doesn't use fundamentals then have you tried them on other market types?

Markets in 2024
UK Horseracing 10,153
AU Horseracing 31,813
UK Greyhounds 53,140
AU Greyhounds 46,965
Roughly 142,000

The other half is on those excluding AU, commission kills me there.

However, I am just beginning to extend into football. Took me a long while to realise I need to adjust my volume settings to start scraping profit there. Managing around £4 a day from football now so really hoping with more tweaking I can hit the magic settings to allow me to cut my real work hours down.

The problem I have is that I'm literally just using trial and error. So I mess with some settings and have to wait at least a week, often massively reducing my profit.

I could benefit somewhat collecting data... but my method mainly can only be tested on live markets as with practice mode its not realistic in that if you use too big a stake in real life all your bad value bets get taken, and the good value ignored. I'm scraping my profits from very small stakes

[Fugazi]

Making any profit is still impressive in the first year

We've witnessed far more challenging beginnings

It sounds like a solid foundation to build upon

Fully agree. Often I need to remind myself I would have been in awe 12 months ago if I knew I clicked a couple of buttons each day and printed £25.

Hedonistic treadmill however. I currently make £1900 a month post tax in a job I quite enjoy. So I would want to be making £3000 minimum each month to consider fully quitting. That said, I'm aiming to discuss with my boss cutting me to a 3 day week by the end of this year when I've built a nice comfortable buffer. Probably the best of both worlds for me to do a 3 day week.

[ShaunWhite]

The problem I have is that I'm literally just using trial and error. So I mess with some settings and have to wait at least a week, often massively reducing my profit.

I could benefit somewhat collecting data... but my method mainly can only be tested on live markets as with practice mode its not realistic.

The issue there is a week is a small sample, then you change it (back fitting) , only to run it on a different set of races. You don't even know if your changed helped or if the market just evolved, or exhibited normal variance. And you have to wait ages between iterations.

All your issues are fixable. When I decided to get really serious aka no plan B, it was almost a year between that and running my first serious strategy. (aside from small losing stuff just to collect info) . I had a high degree of certainty it would work and it did, and still does.

Full api data, rigorous analysis, simulator (good enough to correlate with live to within about 0.5%), in/out of sample testing to iradicate back fitting, detailed execution reporting to address slippage. Ie a methodology and the tools to do it. And some stuff you can execute with Guardian. so I'm not trying to frighten off subscribers.

As an example I just asked chat how long it would take a normal person to learn 'enough' SQL, Python and Machine Learning to produce meaningful information, 5 months at 20hrs a week. Or learn something else like Microsoft BI, just do something to improve your odds. 'Pro' quants aren't using trial and error and running a bot is the end of a process not the start.

This is what I mean about the lack of info about what you're actually supposed to be doing while the manual guys are watching the telly and playing the ladder game. But who likes to be told they should start now and have a bet in a year while the manual guys get to do it the same day.

('year'. A time between months and never)

[Kai]

This is what I mean about the lack of info about what you're actually supposed to be doing while the manual guys are watching the telly and playing the ladder game. But who likes to be told they should start now and have a bet in a year while the manual guys get to do it the same day.

Isn't that the price you pay for removing emotion from the trading equation, which is arguably supposed to be the hardest part for almost everyone

I suspect some would call that a fair trade-off

[Fugazi]

The problem I have is that I'm literally just using trial and error. So I mess with some settings and have to wait at least a week, often massively reducing my profit.

I could benefit somewhat collecting data... but my method mainly can only be tested on live markets as with practice mode its not realistic.

The issue there is a week is a small sample, then you change it (back fitting) , only to run it on a different set of races. You don't even know if your changed helped or if the market just evolved, or exhibited normal variance. And you have to wait ages between iterations.

All your issues are fixable. When I decided to get really serious aka no plan B, it was almost a year between that and running my first serious strategy. (aside from small losing stuff just to collect info) . I had a high degree of certainty it would work and it did, and still does.

Full api data, rigorous analysis, simulator (good enough to correlate with live to within about 0.5%), in/out of sample testing to iradicate back fitting, detailed execution reporting to address slippage. Ie a methodology and the tools to do it. And some stuff you can execute with Guardian. so I'm not trying to frighten off subscribers.

As an example I just asked chat how long it would take a normal person to learn 'enough' SQL, Python and Machine Learning to produce meaningful information, 5 months at 20hrs a week. Or learn something else like Microsoft BI, just do something to improve your odds. 'Pro' quants aren't using trial and error and running a bot is the end of a process not the start.

This is what I mean about the lack of info about what you're actually supposed to be doing while the manual guys are watching the telly and playing the ladder game. But who likes to be told they should start now and have a bet in a year while the manual guys get to do it the same day.

('year'. A time between months and never)

1 week is around 400 markets for me. Yes small sample but if I just got battered, generally its a big enough sign to change it. Yes at that sample size it can still be variance but sometimes you can just see you're getting taken to the cleaners.

Full api data, rigorous analysis, simulator All whilst working fulltime, hobbies, relationships to maintain, and time to unwind at the end of the day? This is the problem really.

Trial and error is just to get to enough profit, to be able to make time for that stuff. Bit of a catch 22. Though perhaps as you alluded, the hard part is knowing what exactly you should spend your time learning. I wasted a lot of time trying to learn python and build a model, when actually my profitable automation has nothing to do with that

[Aberdeentrad]

Been reading through various topics and I really appreciate all the great information there is across this forum.

I did the free trial a year ago and have eventually decided to sign up for a year. Reason for the delay is I didn’t feel I had enough time to give it a proper go, I’ve spent the time looking over some data I had which has been helpful.

Based on the discussion here around API and simulators for backtesting does that suggest that going down the route of collecting data via Guardian stored values isn’t a good way to go about it?

Fully understand the value in backtesting and confirming strategies before going live but want to make sure I start off in the right direction.