Ukraine Crisis
"The people who lost their presentation in the gov". I assume you mean Russian ethnics in the Donbas. Can you provide a reference for that? I would genuinely be interested. Genuinely.napshnap wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:52 pmThe undercurrent to all this is nato's possible expansion into vital region, I guess we discussed it.greenmark wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:21 pmThis thread isn't anti-russian, just anti raining misery on millions for a pretty obscure objective. The undercurrent to all this seems to be Ukraine is Nazi Germany in disguise. Thats complete cobblers. The diversity in the Donbas could have been resolved without killing people. If anythng, Putin's regime is Hitler in disguise. Lock up or kill people that gain any kind of traction with the public.napshnap wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:51 pm
You know what's interesting in this particular situation? In this podcast, Andrew tries to be a "voice of reason", many times he said to Lex that you shouldn't be feelings driven and should rely only on strong material evidence, BUT it's HIS bulshit take about "architecture saving" which is obviously emotionally driven (or, taking into account his background, manipulative, I don't know). Or maybe, he has some top secret data about some random russian guy autopsy when they found out that there is a little alien guy in every russians head (like in MiB movie) or their blood is blue colored and glowing?
This whole project is just an insane waste.
Can you trust someone that changes his country's constitution to allow him to stand in the next (pointless) election?
"The diversity in the Donbas could have been resolved without killing people."
The people who lost their presentation in the gov (lack of it opens the door to all possible kinds of oppression) due to undemocratic coup were then officially identified as separatists and terrorists ("counterterrorism operation" that's how the called it) and certain (deadly) action was taken against them which the west totally approved or closed eyes on this (and keep them closed by now).
" If anythng, Putin's regime..."
Screw all of that, that domestic "politics" (hehe btw, some western countries adopt our "best practices" - Mar a Lago raid). You know my opinion.
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Ukraine has taken out another bridge that is vital for Russian forces occupying the southern Kherson region.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_ ... ntegrationgreenmark wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:02 pm"The people who lost their presentation in the gov". I assume you mean Russian ethnics in the Donbas. Can you provide a reference for that? I would genuinely be interested. Genuinely.napshnap wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:52 pmThe undercurrent to all this is nato's possible expansion into vital region, I guess we discussed it.greenmark wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:21 pm
This thread isn't anti-russian, just anti raining misery on millions for a pretty obscure objective. The undercurrent to all this seems to be Ukraine is Nazi Germany in disguise. Thats complete cobblers. The diversity in the Donbas could have been resolved without killing people. If anythng, Putin's regime is Hitler in disguise. Lock up or kill people that gain any kind of traction with the public.
This whole project is just an insane waste.
Can you trust someone that changes his country's constitution to allow him to stand in the next (pointless) election?
"The diversity in the Donbas could have been resolved without killing people."
The people who lost their presentation in the gov (lack of it opens the door to all possible kinds of oppression) due to undemocratic coup were then officially identified as separatists and terrorists ("counterterrorism operation" that's how the called it) and certain (deadly) action was taken against them which the west totally approved or closed eyes on this (and keep them closed by now).
" If anythng, Putin's regime..."
Screw all of that, that domestic "politics" (hehe btw, some western countries adopt our "best practices" - Mar a Lago raid). You know my opinion.
"On 14 September 2014 Party of Regions chose not to participate in the 2014 parliamentary elections; the party deemed the election as lacking legitimacy because the residents of the Donbass could not vote in the election."
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/ho ... -was-lost/
"We should also take into account the Donbas’ characteristically hostile and cautious attitude to Kyiv (and any other supraregional power), as well as its sensitivity to the discriminatory rhetoric that Ukrainian politicians and public figures have permitted themselves to use when speaking about ‘residents of the Donbas’. "
"...the indecisiveness of the new Kyiv government, stemming not only from fears of further violence, but also the lack of the post-Maidan elites’ political or economic interest in the Donbas (the electorate of which was predominantly against Maidan..."
"This simplified scheme traditionally gave the ‘east’ four regional capitals, the big industrial towns of Donetsk, Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and Luhansk. In the post-war Soviet Union, the first three became homes to millions of people, and Luhansk – 500,000. Here, people predominantly speak Russian. Both in 2004 and 2010, the majority of voters in these regions (albeit with a significant discrepancy between them) chose Viktor Yanukovych, a native of the Donbas, as their president. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutio ... %20injured.
"...these protests continued for months; their scope widened, with calls for the resignation of Yanukovych and the Azarov Government."
"The following day (22 February), police withdrew from central Kyiv, which came under effective control of the protesters. Yanukovych fled the city.[33] That day, the Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Yanukovych from office..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Azarov_Government
Azarov Government - "On 24 December 2012, the second Azarov government was appointed by president Yanukovych (Presidential Ukase #726/2012[12]).[1] The coalition of Party of Regions and Ukraine – Forward!"
"On 27 February 2014 Ukraine's parliament approved a resolution to dismiss the government.[5] They immediately followed it by the appointment of the new cabinet members of the Yatsenyuk government."
Many thanks. I shall read all of that. To talk is good.napshnap wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:59 pmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_ ... ntegrationgreenmark wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:02 pm"The people who lost their presentation in the gov". I assume you mean Russian ethnics in the Donbas. Can you provide a reference for that? I would genuinely be interested. Genuinely.napshnap wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:52 pm
The undercurrent to all this is nato's possible expansion into vital region, I guess we discussed it.
"The diversity in the Donbas could have been resolved without killing people."
The people who lost their presentation in the gov (lack of it opens the door to all possible kinds of oppression) due to undemocratic coup were then officially identified as separatists and terrorists ("counterterrorism operation" that's how the called it) and certain (deadly) action was taken against them which the west totally approved or closed eyes on this (and keep them closed by now).
" If anythng, Putin's regime..."
Screw all of that, that domestic "politics" (hehe btw, some western countries adopt our "best practices" - Mar a Lago raid). You know my opinion.
"On 14 September 2014 Party of Regions chose not to participate in the 2014 parliamentary elections; the party deemed the election as lacking legitimacy because the residents of the Donbass could not vote in the election."
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/ho ... -was-lost/
"We should also take into account the Donbas’ characteristically hostile and cautious attitude to Kyiv (and any other supraregional power), as well as its sensitivity to the discriminatory rhetoric that Ukrainian politicians and public figures have permitted themselves to use when speaking about ‘residents of the Donbas’. "
"...the indecisiveness of the new Kyiv government, stemming not only from fears of further violence, but also the lack of the post-Maidan elites’ political or economic interest in the Donbas (the electorate of which was predominantly against Maidan..."
"This simplified scheme traditionally gave the ‘east’ four regional capitals, the big industrial towns of Donetsk, Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and Luhansk. In the post-war Soviet Union, the first three became homes to millions of people, and Luhansk – 500,000. Here, people predominantly speak Russian. Both in 2004 and 2010, the majority of voters in these regions (albeit with a significant discrepancy between them) chose Viktor Yanukovych, a native of the Donbas, as their president. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutio ... %20injured.
"...these protests continued for months; their scope widened, with calls for the resignation of Yanukovych and the Azarov Government."
"The following day (22 February), police withdrew from central Kyiv, which came under effective control of the protesters. Yanukovych fled the city.[33] That day, the Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Yanukovych from office..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Azarov_Government
Azarov Government - "On 24 December 2012, the second Azarov government was appointed by president Yanukovych (Presidential Ukase #726/2012[12]).[1] The coalition of Party of Regions and Ukraine – Forward!"
"On 27 February 2014 Ukraine's parliament approved a resolution to dismiss the government.[5] They immediately followed it by the appointment of the new cabinet members of the Yatsenyuk government."
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Great, now we got 2 nut jobs working together.....
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Still working through those links and assosciated stuff.greenmark wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:03 pmMany thanks. I shall read all of that. To talk is good.napshnap wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:59 pmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_ ... ntegration
"On 14 September 2014 Party of Regions chose not to participate in the 2014 parliamentary elections; the party deemed the election as lacking legitimacy because the residents of the Donbass could not vote in the election."
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/ho ... -was-lost/
"We should also take into account the Donbas’ characteristically hostile and cautious attitude to Kyiv (and any other supraregional power), as well as its sensitivity to the discriminatory rhetoric that Ukrainian politicians and public figures have permitted themselves to use when speaking about ‘residents of the Donbas’. "
"...the indecisiveness of the new Kyiv government, stemming not only from fears of further violence, but also the lack of the post-Maidan elites’ political or economic interest in the Donbas (the electorate of which was predominantly against Maidan..."
"This simplified scheme traditionally gave the ‘east’ four regional capitals, the big industrial towns of Donetsk, Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and Luhansk. In the post-war Soviet Union, the first three became homes to millions of people, and Luhansk – 500,000. Here, people predominantly speak Russian. Both in 2004 and 2010, the majority of voters in these regions (albeit with a significant discrepancy between them) chose Viktor Yanukovych, a native of the Donbas, as their president. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutio ... %20injured.
"...these protests continued for months; their scope widened, with calls for the resignation of Yanukovych and the Azarov Government."
"The following day (22 February), police withdrew from central Kyiv, which came under effective control of the protesters. Yanukovych fled the city.[33] That day, the Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Yanukovych from office..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Azarov_Government
Azarov Government - "On 24 December 2012, the second Azarov government was appointed by president Yanukovych (Presidential Ukase #726/2012[12]).[1] The coalition of Party of Regions and Ukraine – Forward!"
"On 27 February 2014 Ukraine's parliament approved a resolution to dismiss the government.[5] They immediately followed it by the appointment of the new cabinet members of the Yatsenyuk government."
Thankyou, you've made me realise I don't know enough about the situation to comment.
It's a horrible tangled mess. It reeks of Eurpoean (including the UK and even the US) politics over the centurys.
I'll keep reading.
I just hope common sense and diplomacy can prevail, but what I've read doesn't suggest any good outcome anytime soon.
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Zelensky has said the war started and will end in Crimea.
That indicates he plans on taking it back. Putin cant allow that to happen, if it looks likely, Putin will have no choice but to launch a tactical nuclear strike on Kyiv in the hope that it takes Zelensky and his administration out.
Ukraine is having allot of success behind the lines and seems able to take out Russian hardware and munitions unapposed. Thats a massive worry for Putin. I think his options are narrowing and with winter coming his troops will become totally demoralised and battered.
The more I think about it then the more likely I think Putin will do the unthinkable.
Hope I am wrong but.....
That indicates he plans on taking it back. Putin cant allow that to happen, if it looks likely, Putin will have no choice but to launch a tactical nuclear strike on Kyiv in the hope that it takes Zelensky and his administration out.
Ukraine is having allot of success behind the lines and seems able to take out Russian hardware and munitions unapposed. Thats a massive worry for Putin. I think his options are narrowing and with winter coming his troops will become totally demoralised and battered.
The more I think about it then the more likely I think Putin will do the unthinkable.
Hope I am wrong but.....