Ukraine Crisis

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Derek27
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Over 26,000 alleged war crimes are being investigated.
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napshnap
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Derek27 wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:20 pm
Over 26,000 alleged war crimes are being investigated.
Are you talking about recent Amnesty International investigation?
greenmark
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Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 pm

napshnap wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:52 pm
greenmark wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:21 pm
napshnap wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:51 pm


You know what's interesting in this particular situation? In this podcast, Andrew tries to be a "voice of reason", many times he said to Lex that you shouldn't be feelings driven and should rely only on strong material evidence, BUT it's HIS bulshit take about "architecture saving" which is obviously emotionally driven (or, taking into account his background, manipulative, I don't know). Or maybe, he has some top secret data about some random russian guy autopsy when they found out that there is a little alien guy in every russians head (like in MiB movie) or their blood is blue colored and glowing?
This thread isn't anti-russian, just anti raining misery on millions for a pretty obscure objective. The undercurrent to all this seems to be Ukraine is Nazi Germany in disguise. Thats complete cobblers. The diversity in the Donbas could have been resolved without killing people. If anythng, Putin's regime is Hitler in disguise. Lock up or kill people that gain any kind of traction with the public.
This whole project is just an insane waste.
Can you trust someone that changes his country's constitution to allow him to stand in the next (pointless) election?
The undercurrent to all this is nato's possible expansion into vital region, I guess we discussed it.

"The diversity in the Donbas could have been resolved without killing people."

The people who lost their presentation in the gov (lack of it opens the door to all possible kinds of oppression) due to undemocratic coup were then officially identified as separatists and terrorists ("counterterrorism operation" that's how the called it) and certain (deadly) action was taken against them which the west totally approved or closed eyes on this (and keep them closed by now).

" If anythng, Putin's regime..."

Screw all of that, that domestic "politics" (hehe btw, some western countries adopt our "best practices" - Mar a Lago raid). You know my opinion.
"The people who lost their presentation in the gov". I assume you mean Russian ethnics in the Donbas. Can you provide a reference for that? I would genuinely be interested. Genuinely.
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Derek27
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napshnap wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:46 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:20 pm
Over 26,000 alleged war crimes are being investigated.
Are you talking about recent Amnesty International investigation?
Ukrainian police.
Archery1969
Posts: 3193
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Location: Newport

Ukraine has taken out another bridge that is vital for Russian forces occupying the southern Kherson region. :D
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napshnap
Posts: 1189
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greenmark wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:02 pm
napshnap wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:52 pm
greenmark wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:21 pm

This thread isn't anti-russian, just anti raining misery on millions for a pretty obscure objective. The undercurrent to all this seems to be Ukraine is Nazi Germany in disguise. Thats complete cobblers. The diversity in the Donbas could have been resolved without killing people. If anythng, Putin's regime is Hitler in disguise. Lock up or kill people that gain any kind of traction with the public.
This whole project is just an insane waste.
Can you trust someone that changes his country's constitution to allow him to stand in the next (pointless) election?
The undercurrent to all this is nato's possible expansion into vital region, I guess we discussed it.

"The diversity in the Donbas could have been resolved without killing people."

The people who lost their presentation in the gov (lack of it opens the door to all possible kinds of oppression) due to undemocratic coup were then officially identified as separatists and terrorists ("counterterrorism operation" that's how the called it) and certain (deadly) action was taken against them which the west totally approved or closed eyes on this (and keep them closed by now).

" If anythng, Putin's regime..."

Screw all of that, that domestic "politics" (hehe btw, some western countries adopt our "best practices" - Mar a Lago raid). You know my opinion.
"The people who lost their presentation in the gov". I assume you mean Russian ethnics in the Donbas. Can you provide a reference for that? I would genuinely be interested. Genuinely.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_ ... ntegration

"On 14 September 2014 Party of Regions chose not to participate in the 2014 parliamentary elections; the party deemed the election as lacking legitimacy because the residents of the Donbass could not vote in the election."


https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/ho ... -was-lost/

"We should also take into account the Donbas’ characteristically hostile and cautious attitude to Kyiv (and any other supraregional power), as well as its sensitivity to the discriminatory rhetoric that Ukrainian politicians and public figures have permitted themselves to use when speaking about ‘residents of the Donbas’. "

"...the indecisiveness of the new Kyiv government, stemming not only from fears of further violence, but also the lack of the post-Maidan elites’ political or economic interest in the Donbas (the electorate of which was predominantly against Maidan..."

"This simplified scheme traditionally gave the ‘east’ four regional capitals, the big industrial towns of Donetsk, Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and Luhansk. In the post-war Soviet Union, the first three became homes to millions of people, and Luhansk – 500,000. Here, people predominantly speak Russian. Both in 2004 and 2010, the majority of voters in these regions (albeit with a significant discrepancy between them) chose Viktor Yanukovych, a native of the Donbas, as their president. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutio ... %20injured.

"...these protests continued for months; their scope widened, with calls for the resignation of Yanukovych and the Azarov Government."

"The following day (22 February), police withdrew from central Kyiv, which came under effective control of the protesters. Yanukovych fled the city.[33] That day, the Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Yanukovych from office..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Azarov_Government

Azarov Government - "On 24 December 2012, the second Azarov government was appointed by president Yanukovych (Presidential Ukase #726/2012[12]).[1] The coalition of Party of Regions and Ukraine – Forward!"

"On 27 February 2014 Ukraine's parliament approved a resolution to dismiss the government.[5] They immediately followed it by the appointment of the new cabinet members of the Yatsenyuk government."
greenmark
Posts: 4948
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 pm

napshnap wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:59 pm
greenmark wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:02 pm
napshnap wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:52 pm


The undercurrent to all this is nato's possible expansion into vital region, I guess we discussed it.

"The diversity in the Donbas could have been resolved without killing people."

The people who lost their presentation in the gov (lack of it opens the door to all possible kinds of oppression) due to undemocratic coup were then officially identified as separatists and terrorists ("counterterrorism operation" that's how the called it) and certain (deadly) action was taken against them which the west totally approved or closed eyes on this (and keep them closed by now).

" If anythng, Putin's regime..."

Screw all of that, that domestic "politics" (hehe btw, some western countries adopt our "best practices" - Mar a Lago raid). You know my opinion.
"The people who lost their presentation in the gov". I assume you mean Russian ethnics in the Donbas. Can you provide a reference for that? I would genuinely be interested. Genuinely.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_ ... ntegration

"On 14 September 2014 Party of Regions chose not to participate in the 2014 parliamentary elections; the party deemed the election as lacking legitimacy because the residents of the Donbass could not vote in the election."


https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/ho ... -was-lost/

"We should also take into account the Donbas’ characteristically hostile and cautious attitude to Kyiv (and any other supraregional power), as well as its sensitivity to the discriminatory rhetoric that Ukrainian politicians and public figures have permitted themselves to use when speaking about ‘residents of the Donbas’. "

"...the indecisiveness of the new Kyiv government, stemming not only from fears of further violence, but also the lack of the post-Maidan elites’ political or economic interest in the Donbas (the electorate of which was predominantly against Maidan..."

"This simplified scheme traditionally gave the ‘east’ four regional capitals, the big industrial towns of Donetsk, Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and Luhansk. In the post-war Soviet Union, the first three became homes to millions of people, and Luhansk – 500,000. Here, people predominantly speak Russian. Both in 2004 and 2010, the majority of voters in these regions (albeit with a significant discrepancy between them) chose Viktor Yanukovych, a native of the Donbas, as their president. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutio ... %20injured.

"...these protests continued for months; their scope widened, with calls for the resignation of Yanukovych and the Azarov Government."

"The following day (22 February), police withdrew from central Kyiv, which came under effective control of the protesters. Yanukovych fled the city.[33] That day, the Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Yanukovych from office..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Azarov_Government

Azarov Government - "On 24 December 2012, the second Azarov government was appointed by president Yanukovych (Presidential Ukase #726/2012[12]).[1] The coalition of Party of Regions and Ukraine – Forward!"

"On 27 February 2014 Ukraine's parliament approved a resolution to dismiss the government.[5] They immediately followed it by the appointment of the new cabinet members of the Yatsenyuk government."
Many thanks. I shall read all of that. To talk is good. :-)
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napshnap
Posts: 1189
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greenmark wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:03 pm
napshnap wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:59 pm
greenmark wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:02 pm

"The people who lost their presentation in the gov". I assume you mean Russian ethnics in the Donbas. Can you provide a reference for that? I would genuinely be interested. Genuinely.
....
Many thanks. I shall read all of that. To talk is good. :-)
You're welcome, pal. Try not to go crazy reading about their politics cause it's messy as f.)
Archery1969
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Location: Newport

Great, now we got 2 nut jobs working together.....
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Jukebox
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If there is to be a nuclear war it would be helpful to have one big one rather than separate ones in quick succession !
Archery1969
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Location: Newport

Jukebox wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:09 am
If there is to be a nuclear war it would be helpful to have one big one rather than separate ones in quick succession !
:lol:
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Derek27
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Putin's like the lonely/disliked kid who doesn't choose his friends but can only hang out with another misfit that nobody wants to know.
Archery1969
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Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:25 am
Location: Newport

Derek27 wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:57 pm
Putin's like the lonely/disliked kid who doesn't choose his friends but can only hang out with another misfit that nobody wants to know.
He will probably starting giving him more Nukes. Assuming they actually work.
greenmark
Posts: 4948
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 pm

greenmark wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:03 pm
napshnap wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:59 pm
greenmark wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:02 pm

"The people who lost their presentation in the gov". I assume you mean Russian ethnics in the Donbas. Can you provide a reference for that? I would genuinely be interested. Genuinely.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_ ... ntegration

"On 14 September 2014 Party of Regions chose not to participate in the 2014 parliamentary elections; the party deemed the election as lacking legitimacy because the residents of the Donbass could not vote in the election."


https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/ho ... -was-lost/

"We should also take into account the Donbas’ characteristically hostile and cautious attitude to Kyiv (and any other supraregional power), as well as its sensitivity to the discriminatory rhetoric that Ukrainian politicians and public figures have permitted themselves to use when speaking about ‘residents of the Donbas’. "

"...the indecisiveness of the new Kyiv government, stemming not only from fears of further violence, but also the lack of the post-Maidan elites’ political or economic interest in the Donbas (the electorate of which was predominantly against Maidan..."

"This simplified scheme traditionally gave the ‘east’ four regional capitals, the big industrial towns of Donetsk, Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and Luhansk. In the post-war Soviet Union, the first three became homes to millions of people, and Luhansk – 500,000. Here, people predominantly speak Russian. Both in 2004 and 2010, the majority of voters in these regions (albeit with a significant discrepancy between them) chose Viktor Yanukovych, a native of the Donbas, as their president. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutio ... %20injured.

"...these protests continued for months; their scope widened, with calls for the resignation of Yanukovych and the Azarov Government."

"The following day (22 February), police withdrew from central Kyiv, which came under effective control of the protesters. Yanukovych fled the city.[33] That day, the Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Yanukovych from office..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Azarov_Government

Azarov Government - "On 24 December 2012, the second Azarov government was appointed by president Yanukovych (Presidential Ukase #726/2012[12]).[1] The coalition of Party of Regions and Ukraine – Forward!"

"On 27 February 2014 Ukraine's parliament approved a resolution to dismiss the government.[5] They immediately followed it by the appointment of the new cabinet members of the Yatsenyuk government."
Many thanks. I shall read all of that. To talk is good. :-)
Still working through those links and assosciated stuff.
Thankyou, you've made me realise I don't know enough about the situation to comment.
It's a horrible tangled mess. It reeks of Eurpoean (including the UK and even the US) politics over the centurys.
I'll keep reading.
I just hope common sense and diplomacy can prevail, but what I've read doesn't suggest any good outcome anytime soon.
Archery1969
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Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:25 am
Location: Newport

Zelensky has said the war started and will end in Crimea.

That indicates he plans on taking it back. Putin cant allow that to happen, if it looks likely, Putin will have no choice but to launch a tactical nuclear strike on Kyiv in the hope that it takes Zelensky and his administration out.

Ukraine is having allot of success behind the lines and seems able to take out Russian hardware and munitions unapposed. Thats a massive worry for Putin. I think his options are narrowing and with winter coming his troops will become totally demoralised and battered.

The more I think about it then the more likely I think Putin will do the unthinkable.

Hope I am wrong but.....
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