Betfair Accounts being restricted, closed and suspended

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cybernet69

Hi,

I was originally led to believe that when you purchased a subscription to BA or any other software that uses the API then this meant you didn't have to personally pay the £299 commercial developers fee ?

It would seem however that this is not the case as BF seem to be cracking down on the following:

1. Accounts which only ever place bets in test mode.
2. Accounts which mainly place bets in test mode and the occasional bets in live mode.
3. Accounts which use strategies whereby they place large numbers of bets outside a selections initial trading range in the hope of catching spikes or price jumps. The ratio between bets placed and bets matched is too high.
4. Accounts which don't generate a certain percentage profit over a monitored period of time.
5. Accounts firing large number of in-running bets (horse racing) in the hope of getting a small percentage matched to return a profit long term.
6. Accounts which BF believe are data mining.

Please chip in if you think any of the above is incorrect. Since January this year I personally know of one or more individuals performing one or more of the above that have had their accounts restricted, including myself. BF are requesting £299 to have the account restrictions lifted.

Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining about my own situation as I have since found a way to circumvent BF's multiple account restriction.

Have BF changed their policy since merging with Paddy Power, what does the future hold for bots ?

Myself and others would be interested to know what BA's take is on this and if they can offer any advise rather than doing what I did to get around it.

Cheers,

Mark
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gstar1975
Posts: 445
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:59 am

Sounds like a scam to me. Why would they want to risk any future commission you earn them just for the sake of £299?
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Dallas
Posts: 19575
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:57 pm
Location: Working From Home

Your right about them cracking down a little harder on users who don't have funded accounts or use just practice mode especially if they are new accounts, the problem is Betfair dont provide any clear guide lines as to min requirements etc if they did everyone would know where they stand.

Until they do all that users can do is heed the advice given in the user guide and keep a funded account and place some real bets, there is plenty of markets you can do this with little to no risk (football being one of the best).
https://www.betangel.com/user-guide/pra ... 3D&mw=MzIw

A little clarification from Betfair on what they are prepared to except would make life easier!
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jimibt
Posts: 3302
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Location: South West Scotland

Mark,

As one of those affected in january for pretty much all of the items mentioned on your list, I was more than happy when BF reviewed my case and removed the restrictions that they had placed on my account. The only caveat however was that my LIVE api key (for my own personal use) was removed, meaning that I was unable to create my own live bots and thus had to rely on Bet Angel for the live part. This was no big deal as the delayed key allowed me to do pretty much everything that I needed to do outside of the live environment.

However, imagine my shock yesterday when again out of the blue, I received a second automated *BDP Betfair Account* email telling me that my account had once more been limited. Having ensured that my test strategies are balanced with live trading, I was a little concerned as I can no longer identify the rationale behind restricting user accounts. I've entered into a dialog with BDP this morning as the new restriction limits my ability to use Bet Angel due to the mix of delayed odds and volumes. As things stand, I'll be unable to use my subscription for anything as all my automation relies on the precision of having up to the millisecond data.

I shall let the forum know of the outcome here as this is a disturbing trend. My feeling is that the £299 fee may be the way around things, tho tbh, it seems mad that 3rd party apps pay for this priviledge in ignorance of the fact that their paid subscribers are being penalised for taking advantage of the features that attracted them to the software in the 1st place (this is not a criticism of BA, merely a grey area that soon becomes a black hole).

Fingers xx'd that common sense and a consensus allows this issue to become a non issue moving fwd.
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

1. Accounts which only ever place bets in test mode.
2. Accounts which mainly place bets in test mode and the occasional bets in live mode.
3. Accounts which use strategies whereby they place large numbers of bets outside a selections initial trading range in the hope of catching spikes or price jumps. The ratio between bets placed and bets matched is too high.
4. Accounts which don't generate a certain percentage profit over a monitored period of time.
5. Accounts firing large number of in-running bets (horse racing) in the hope of getting a small percentage matched to return a profit long term.
6. Accounts which BF believe are data mining.

Personally I'm quite happy to see Betfair clamping down on all of those scenarios.
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LeTiss
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This will probably end up spelling the end of Bet Angel's practice mode
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jimibt
Posts: 3302
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Location: South West Scotland

spreadbetting wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:13 pm
1. Accounts which only ever place bets in test mode.
2. Accounts which mainly place bets in test mode and the occasional bets in live mode.
3. Accounts which use strategies whereby they place large numbers of bets outside a selections initial trading range in the hope of catching spikes or price jumps. The ratio between bets placed and bets matched is too high.
4. Accounts which don't generate a certain percentage profit over a monitored period of time.
5. Accounts firing large number of in-running bets (horse racing) in the hope of getting a small percentage matched to return a profit long term.
6. Accounts which BF believe are data mining.

Personally I'm quite happy to see Betfair clamping down on all of those scenarios.
SB, in my case, I'd say that #3 above forms a fairly common thread in many components of my strategies (gaps between odds, book% yielding etc). I don't agree that having observed market conditions and seizing opportunity in scenarios such as this should lead to a clamping down?? I do agree that #1 above is of the ilk that you don't support...

in short, i don't think betfair should be in a position to dictate the philosophy of ones trading. I do agree that the data is not there for a free ride tho
welshboy06
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:06 pm

To me it seems a bit fishy that they begin clamping down around the time that they start offering 50ms historical data.

Instead of using practice mode for testing different methods, it seems that they want us to pay for their data and use that instead.
cybernet69

spreadbetting wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:13 pm
1. Accounts which only ever place bets in test mode.
2. Accounts which mainly place bets in test mode and the occasional bets in live mode.
3. Accounts which use strategies whereby they place large numbers of bets outside a selections initial trading range in the hope of catching spikes or price jumps. The ratio between bets placed and bets matched is too high.
4. Accounts which don't generate a certain percentage profit over a monitored period of time.
5. Accounts firing large number of in-running bets (horse racing) in the hope of getting a small percentage matched to return a profit long term.
6. Accounts which BF believe are data mining.

Personally I'm quite happy to see Betfair clamping down on all of those scenarios.
With all due respect, that's rather a harsh statement given point 4 above. How are new starters supposed to build up knowledge and strategies or are you and BF expecting everyone to be an expert from the word go ?
cybernet69

LeTiss wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:15 pm
This will probably end up spelling the end of Bet Angel's practice mode
What about point 4 on my list. This means people are placing real bets but not generating enough commission long term ?
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jimibt
Posts: 3302
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:42 pm
Location: South West Scotland

welshboy06 wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:23 pm
To me it seems a bit fishy that they begin clamping down around the time that they start offering 50ms historical data.

Instead of using practice mode for testing different methods, it seems that they want us to pay for their data and use that instead.
+1 - on that note, gorra head out, but nice to see reflective alternatives being offered
cybernet69

LeTiss wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:15 pm
This will probably end up spelling the end of Bet Angel's practice mode
Could have a significant impact on new and continued subscriptions to BA and other software too. People are not going to want to risk having their accounts restricted by falling foul of BF's new undisclosed rules for using the API etc.
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

cybernet69 wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:23 pm
spreadbetting wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:13 pm
1. Accounts which only ever place bets in test mode.
2. Accounts which mainly place bets in test mode and the occasional bets in live mode.
3. Accounts which use strategies whereby they place large numbers of bets outside a selections initial trading range in the hope of catching spikes or price jumps. The ratio between bets placed and bets matched is too high.
4. Accounts which don't generate a certain percentage profit over a monitored period of time.
5. Accounts firing large number of in-running bets (horse racing) in the hope of getting a small percentage matched to return a profit long term.
6. Accounts which BF believe are data mining.

Personally I'm quite happy to see Betfair clamping down on all of those scenarios.
With all due respect, that's rather a harsh statement given point 4 above. How are new starters supposed to build up knowledge and strategies or are you and BF expecting everyone to be an expert from the word go ?
No one's expecting people to be experts but when they're continually placing bets that aren't being matched you can't blame Betfair for blocking those accounts. As for 4. I'd be surprised if accounts get closed for generating small amounts of comission for Betfair as they already have things in place for dormant accounts. The other scenarios are either trap bets or data mining, there's the delayed API if people want to test out strategies, if those test strategies go on forever without bets being placed it's no surprise Betfair will see those as data mining.
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jimibt
Posts: 3302
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:42 pm
Location: South West Scotland

cybernet69 wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:35 pm
LeTiss wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:15 pm
This will probably end up spelling the end of Bet Angel's practice mode
Could have a significant impact on new and continued subscriptions to BA and other software too. People are not going to want to risk having their accounts restricted by falling foul of BF's new undisclosed rules for using the API etc.
don't underestimate how much data you consume even if just screen recording every market for further analysis. on my *other software* account, i used this technique to record market info (in video form) and am certain that it all adds up when the BDP(olice) sum your total thro-put.
cybernet69

jimibt wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:19 pm
cybernet69 wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:35 pm
LeTiss wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:15 pm
This will probably end up spelling the end of Bet Angel's practice mode
Could have a significant impact on new and continued subscriptions to BA and other software too. People are not going to want to risk having their accounts restricted by falling foul of BF's new undisclosed rules for using the API etc.
don't underestimate how much data you consume even if just screen recording every market for further analysis. on my *other software* account, i used this technique to record market info (in video form) and am certain that it all adds up when the BDP(olice) sum your total thro-put.
Yep, agreed.

But isn't this going to spell the return back to the days of screen scrapping software therefore bypassing the API for some. :)

If I log on to my restricted account via the web then there are no restrictions apart from market depth.
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