Professional trader?

[Euler]

I think there are three answers.

Expert, successful and professional.

Expert means you really know your stuff. Successful means you are doing something you enjoy successfully on your specific terms. So both are compatible with being a professional or not. But ultimately professional means you do it for a living. But the individual definition is different.

I think as a trader, you can't be a professional if you consistently lose money. But you could be considered a professional at any level if you did make money. But ultimately the professional tags is judgement on your P&L, but the prior two answers are not reliant on that.

[PDC]

If you worked for a city firm and lost a lot of money or didn't make much you would be sacked. So it still feels like measuring a professional trader by the performance is the right thing. There are no qualifications or points of reference for work completed and the competence of such.

You don't have professional traders at city firms, you have traders.

Let me qualify it. You are successful, I don't need to know your P&L to know that.

But if you went to somebody for advice, how would you define if they were successful?

For me success (being profitable?) is a minor if not totally unimportant point. Just because someone is making a lot of money doesn't mean they are a good person to go to for advice, they might be terrible at giving it and vice versa.

[Kai]

The short answer simply put, is I would define a 'professional trader' as a cock.

As soon as I hear anyone prefix their job with the word professional alarm bells go up, tbh it only seems to happen in trading. To me they come across as someone who is for whatever reason trying to put themselves above others, they aren't satisfied in their own ability deep down and or the level of recognition they receive for what they achieve. They are insecure and feel they need to try and put others down to boost their own feelings in what they do.

It seems to be something that has been created around trading on Betfair. I don't know one other person who feels a need to prefix what they do with the word professional. You don't hear people say they are a professional teacher, a professional doctor, a professional builder, professional butcher, professional taxi driver, professional porn star If I did hear someone describe themselves that way I would simply think, you are a prized Tw@t, good bye.

The only area I would permit its use is in sport where there is a clear distinction between an amateur and professional e.g. in Horse Racing.

Otherwise. they are a builder, plumber or a part time taxi driver etc.

You need to tell whoever they are that they are just a trader or a part time trader and to get over themselves.

PDC nailed it here for me

I don't think labels and prefixes matter at all, but for the sake of the argument I think it's clear enough, since official certificates don't really exist you don't have a real basis on which to label yourself a licensed pro Now granted, past a certain profit/credibility point you've earned the right to call yourself whatever the hell you want, even God Trader if you will. But I think PDC is talking more about traders out there that want to build credibility and such by using the "pro" prefix since they clearly feel their credentials are a bit lacking.

You can use the "expert" and similar prefixes if you really feel the need to differentiate yourself from other traders, but if we're being technical about it, I don't think anyone that's been dabbling in the markets for a week/month etc can call themselves a trader yet, they're trying to be one so an "aspiring trader" would be the best fit there.

The definition of success is so subjective that I don't even wanna touch that one. I like the "full-time" prefix the most because it implies by default that you are successful enough to live off trading, although "part-time" trader is similar and a part-timer can easily make more than a full-timer.

Because if you say to somebody that you're a "sports trader" then you've just invited a 100 annoying subquestions with a high likelihood of forever being stigmatized

[wearthefoxhat]

Google definitions;

Pro.png

pro2.png

I like the synonym; Crackerjack...never did get my pencil from Leslie Crowther...

[Euler]

It my most senior role in a corporation I actually refused to put a title on my business card (yes it was a while ago) as I felt that prejudiced peoples opinion on what I could do or why I was in a meeting. I wanted to be judged on what I did, not what people thought I should do.

I'd worked at all levels across different organisations, so it felt appropriate not to be pigeonholed into a specific role. I could speak to the FD, sort out a logistics issue, narrow in on a product issue, close a deal. So I wore many hats. I had enough knowledge to pull things together, so my experience was broad enough to make things happen, but not 'expert' enough to get bogged down in the detail.

[Euler]

I like the synonym; Crackerjack...never did get my pencil from Leslie Crowther...

Betfair officiando sounds appealing

[Kai]

But if you went to somebody for advice, how would you define if they were successful?

But would you even want to give advice to somebody that doesn't believe you and is asking you to prove your credibility beforehand?

If you're teaching someone then I think a good level of transparency is a must, for them to fully grasp the whole picture etc.

[psychoff]

Tricky question Peter. I've been trading full-time for years and making my living from this. I am a psychiatrist as well but haven't been working as a doctor since we came to the UK. But I can name myself as a 'pro trader' and a 'mental health pro'. So I guess the term pro would refer to both 'earnings' and 'education'.

[ShaunWhite]

"Full-time" sounds appealing but Full-time nusre?
Just use trader, and people picking a trainer do it the way you'd pick a driving instructor, by recommendation from a trustworthy source.

[ShaunWhite]

It's the 3rd anniversary of this thread on Saturday.

Choosing a job title is harder than actually becoming whatever it is we became.

Betfair officiando sounds appealing

Didn't he play for Uruguay in the 80s with his brother Betdaq ?

[Kai]

It's the 3rd anniversary of this thread on Saturday.

Choosing a job title is harder than actually becoming whatever it is we became.

That's sort of the beauty of it, can pick yer own titles, I had these for a while

[Seth]

Anyone using the term professional is usually doing it because they're selling something or other. I've made my living doing this for a fair few years but wouldn't ever dream of calling myself a 'pro' or 'professional' trader. The thought of referring to myself as a pro trader just makes me cringe. Anyone asks I usually say I make a living gambling, explaining sports trading to the uninitiated is a nightmare at the best of times and best avoided.

[footysystems]

Anyone using the term professional is usually doing it because they're selling something or other. I've made my living doing this for a fair few years but wouldn't ever dream of calling myself a 'pro' or 'professional' trader. The thought of referring to myself as a pro trader just makes me cringe. Anyone asks I usually say I make a living gambling, explaining sports trading to the uninitiated is a nightmare at the best of times and best avoided.

Because it's still taboo that any lay about can make money from betting or trading. My wife is one of them

[jamesg46]

Being a professional trader is similar to being a professional footballer. Your skill defines the level you’re playing at & the money you earn. There are traders that make 20k a year & ones that make 20k a week. Tom Pope is no less a professional than Ronaldo but by god they’re a world apart in ability and earnings.

[andy28]

I must be a professional trader because at the top of my screen it says Bet Angel - Professional v1.58.0

That's close enough for me