My day to day automated trading runs at a hair over 30% with a lifetime iro 26/27%. No straight bets. I'm not in the 250k+ band yet so I don't pay PC, just regular commission. If you plan to be profitable (and who doesn't) then forward planning is well worth it and can't be done soon enough, if you wait until you need it it's much harder to start changing your ingrained comm/profit ratio.
Betfair Rewards Plan - 2% commission!!
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ShaunWhite
- Posts: 9731
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
Woah. Do you run a lot of break even strategies?ShaunWhite wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:33 pmMy day to day automated trading runs at a hair over 30% with a lifetime iro 26/27%. No straight bets.
...that's what I thought - was having a discussion with a pal today about this.
My ratio is currently 4.678%, so surely I'd be better off on the Rewards+ 8% commission for now and then change once I'm comfortably above 10%.
I might also win on the free slot rewards!
I'm surprised that so many PC payers are already on 2% comms. I'm one of those lazy ones that knew the higher rate PC was coming but didn't do anything about it. For the last few years I've been on 50% PC and have been trying for a year now to get/churn my way to the magic 10%+ to get me into the 40% bracket (forecasted for next April). I've never been able to get my commission below about 3.3% as I have to carefully manage my Betfair balance from which I take an ever decreasing wage each month. 2% means I will be able to take advantage of implied commission and should make it a bit easier for me going forward though I will miss the bonuses/cash races that have helped me a bit this past year. I just thought there were a few more PC payers like myself skirting on the edge and wondering if it's all worth it.
Im a new PC payer at 40% level and my commission each week is roughly 3-5%.
So firstly im screwed going forward virtually no chance to get down to 20% even with a decent amount of automation and this being the case it don't matter which of the plans i pick?
So firstly im screwed going forward virtually no chance to get down to 20% even with a decent amount of automation and this being the case it don't matter which of the plans i pick?
sure your on 40%? only way youll get down to 20% rate is if your lifetime profit below 250k if not youll stay on 40buyshirts wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:42 amIm a new PC payer at 40% level and my commission each week is roughly 3-5%.
So firstly im screwed going forward virtually no chance to get down to 20% even with a decent amount of automation and this being the case it don't matter which of the plans i pick?
what i'm *wondering*rik wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:13 amsure your on 40%? only way youll get down to 20% rate is if your lifetime profit below 250k if not youll stay on 40buyshirts wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:42 amIm a new PC payer at 40% level and my commission each week is roughly 3-5%.
So firstly im screwed going forward virtually no chance to get down to 20% even with a decent amount of automation and this being the case it don't matter which of the plans i pick?
is whether my wifes account (cough) which is used purely for outright betting will attract any further significant commission if i (i mean SHE) moves it to 2% basic. i'm assuming as there are no offset bets getting placed on this account, that all commission required is being paid. in short, should it breach the £250k threshold, will it attract PC, even tho purely dealing in outright bets... as i said *my wifes* account purely deals in outright betting!!I don't think it matters what type of betting you do? As far as I understand, once you breach 250k lifetime net profit you will move to higher rate PC irrespective of the markets and/or type of trader you are or betting you do?jimibt wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:25 amwhat i'm *wondering*
Another thing no-one appears to have mentioned is that again as far as I know, once you are a higher rate PC payer, if your commission/gross lifetime profit ratio falls below 10% you will move to 50% and if it moves to below 5% you will pay 60%, ie the higher rate PC band is flexible and changes with your commission/gross lifetime profit ratio.
Do please correct me if I'm wrong - thank you!
It all depends on how much commission you (I mean she) has generated. If it's outright betting with a fine margin, losing almost as much as you win for a few percent profit, commission paid could reach or be close to 40%.jimibt wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:25 amwhat i'm *wondering*rik wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:13 amsure your on 40%? only way youll get down to 20% rate is if your lifetime profit below 250k if not youll stay on 40buyshirts wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:42 amIm a new PC payer at 40% level and my commission each week is roughly 3-5%.
So firstly im screwed going forward virtually no chance to get down to 20% even with a decent amount of automation and this being the case it don't matter which of the plans i pick?
Sounds to me like waifu has a gambling problem!jimibt wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:25 amwhat i'm *wondering*
Big losses should be fantastic for her account, that's why people like to arb with the aim of losing big on the exchange, especially long term.-
ShaunWhite
- Posts: 9731
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
It seems like most people planned to be sucessful but only in terms of what they'll be able to earn rather than the bills that'll go with it. The only people who should be getting hammered by PC and HRPC charges are the guys who had massive totals that were hard to adjust when PC came in. Anyone starting after 2011 knew about it from day #1 and had plenty of time to do something about it. Any startup needs to get a structure in place as early as possible to reduce future tax liabilities so I suppose it depends if people initially approached trading as a potential income/business or as extra pocket money.
Generating commission should be trading lesson #1 these days but it's not as exciting as making money so newbies don't bother with it, until it's too late.
Generating commission should be trading lesson #1 these days but it's not as exciting as making money so newbies don't bother with it, until it's too late.
Bad jokes aside I do agree with you Shaun. But this is not a topic that is often discussed in mathematical detail, I don't remember seeing a single warning about it anywhere (besides the obvious fine print on Betfair's website). I may be blind but I don't see a pinned topic on the forum called "You must understand the commission structure before you start trading!", and correct me if I'm wrong but it's not a part of Peter's masterclass etc, or any other dozen of classes that I've seen over the years. Others who sell various services never talk about any of it either, probably because most of them aren't genuine winners to begin with, but you get my point. Newbies don't care about any of it and that's understandable, but newer generations of traders would probably manage their accounts better if they were aware of the size of potential future pitfalls.
Be careful, I had a 50k bill recently because of something similar.jimibt wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:25 amwhat i'm *wondering*rik wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:13 amsure your on 40%? only way youll get down to 20% rate is if your lifetime profit below 250k if not youll stay on 40buyshirts wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:42 amIm a new PC payer at 40% level and my commission each week is roughly 3-5%.
So firstly im screwed going forward virtually no chance to get down to 20% even with a decent amount of automation and this being the case it don't matter which of the plans i pick?