Betfair Rewards Plan - 2% commission!!

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Derek27
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jimibt wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:25 am
rik wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:13 am
buyshirts wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:42 am
Im a new PC payer at 40% level and my commission each week is roughly 3-5%.

So firstly im screwed going forward virtually no chance to get down to 20% even with a decent amount of automation and this being the case it don't matter which of the plans i pick?
sure your on 40%? only way youll get down to 20% rate is if your lifetime profit below 250k if not youll stay on 40
what i'm *wondering* ;) is whether my wifes account (cough) which is used purely for outright betting will attract any further significant commission if i (i mean SHE) moves it to 2% basic. i'm assuming as there are no offset bets getting placed on this account, that all commission required is being paid. in short, should it breach the £250k threshold, will it attract PC, even tho purely dealing in outright bets... as i said *my wifes* account purely deals in outright betting!!
It all depends on how much commission you (I mean she) has generated. If it's outright betting with a fine margin, losing almost as much as you win for a few percent profit, commission paid could reach or be close to 40%.
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Kai
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jimibt wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:25 am
what i'm *wondering* ;) is whether my wifes account (cough) which is used purely for outright betting will attract any further significant commission if i (i mean SHE) moves it to 2% basic. i'm assuming as there are no offset bets getting placed on this account, that all commission required is being paid. in short, should it breach the £250k threshold, will it attract PC, even tho purely dealing in outright bets... as i said *my wifes* account purely deals in outright betting!!
Sounds to me like waifu has a gambling problem! :mrgreen: Big losses should be fantastic for her account, that's why people like to arb with the aim of losing big on the exchange, especially long term.
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ShaunWhite
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It seems like most people planned to be sucessful but only in terms of what they'll be able to earn rather than the bills that'll go with it. The only people who should be getting hammered by PC and HRPC charges are the guys who had massive totals that were hard to adjust when PC came in. Anyone starting after 2011 knew about it from day #1 and had plenty of time to do something about it. Any startup needs to get a structure in place as early as possible to reduce future tax liabilities so I suppose it depends if people initially approached trading as a potential income/business or as extra pocket money.

Generating commission should be trading lesson #1 these days but it's not as exciting as making money so newbies don't bother with it, until it's too late.
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Kai
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Bad jokes aside I do agree with you Shaun. But this is not a topic that is often discussed in mathematical detail, I don't remember seeing a single warning about it anywhere (besides the obvious fine print on Betfair's website). I may be blind but I don't see a pinned topic on the forum called "You must understand the commission structure before you start trading!", and correct me if I'm wrong but it's not a part of Peter's masterclass etc, or any other dozen of classes that I've seen over the years. Others who sell various services never talk about any of it either, probably because most of them aren't genuine winners to begin with, but you get my point. Newbies don't care about any of it and that's understandable, but newer generations of traders would probably manage their accounts better if they were aware of the size of potential future pitfalls.
LinusP
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jimibt wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:25 am
rik wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:13 am
buyshirts wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:42 am
Im a new PC payer at 40% level and my commission each week is roughly 3-5%.

So firstly im screwed going forward virtually no chance to get down to 20% even with a decent amount of automation and this being the case it don't matter which of the plans i pick?
sure your on 40%? only way youll get down to 20% rate is if your lifetime profit below 250k if not youll stay on 40
what i'm *wondering* ;) is whether my wifes account (cough) which is used purely for outright betting will attract any further significant commission if i (i mean SHE) moves it to 2% basic. i'm assuming as there are no offset bets getting placed on this account, that all commission required is being paid. in short, should it breach the £250k threshold, will it attract PC, even tho purely dealing in outright bets... as i said *my wifes* account purely deals in outright betting!!
Be careful, I had a 50k bill recently because of something similar.
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jimibt
Posts: 3047
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:42 pm

LinusP wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:25 pm
jimibt wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:25 am
rik wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:13 am


sure your on 40%? only way youll get down to 20% rate is if your lifetime profit below 250k if not youll stay on 40
what i'm *wondering* ;) is whether my wifes account (cough) which is used purely for outright betting will attract any further significant commission if i (i mean SHE) moves it to 2% basic. i'm assuming as there are no offset bets getting placed on this account, that all commission required is being paid. in short, should it breach the £250k threshold, will it attract PC, even tho purely dealing in outright bets... as i said *my wifes* account purely deals in outright betting!!
Be careful, I had a 50k bill recently because of something similar.
whao - that must have been a bit of an early xmas (for BF). how exactly did that creep up -and yes, potentially this account could be a similar scenario!! concerned to keep things *straight* but at the same time, minimize surprises further down the line (be it this year, or next)
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Euler
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Betfair trace activity across accounts, so if you try and switch it and they get a match. You will get a bill!

In fact you won't they will just freeze the account and deduct money.
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Derek27
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Kai wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:13 pm
Bad jokes aside I do agree with you Shaun. But this is not a topic that is often discussed in mathematical detail, I don't remember seeing a single warning about it anywhere (besides the obvious fine print on Betfair's website). I may be blind but I don't see a pinned topic on the forum called "You must understand the commission structure before you start trading!", and correct me if I'm wrong but it's not a part of Peter's masterclass etc, or any other dozen of classes that I've seen over the years. Others who sell various services never talk about any of it either, probably because most of them aren't genuine winners to begin with, but you get my point. Newbies don't care about any of it and that's understandable, but newer generations of traders would probably manage their accounts better if they were aware of the size of potential future pitfalls.
If it's true that 95% of exchange users lose (a figure often chucked around), the majority of people won't need to worry about PC and if they did, many might be paying extra commission needlessly. Traders approaching the PC direction need to be warned and ready but I wouldn't want to burden newbies who already have to get to grips with trading, with PC avoidance.
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jimibt
Posts: 3047
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:42 pm

Euler wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:41 pm
Betfair trace activity across accounts, so if you try and switch it and they get a match. You will get a bill!

In fact you won't they will just freeze the account and deduct money.
both accounts operate independently, and to all intents and purposes, they operate within the same space and time. so it's not like one is switching to shore up the other. literally, they are different beasts for different purposes. the question about attracting PC on this particular account is a valid question as there will be others that operate outright betting accounts also. interested to see how different styles (trading vs outright betting) will vary under the new commission.

like others on here, the account in question started out as an arbing/matched betting account, so is to all intents and purposes heavily DOWN in terms of profit, so offers a pretty good starting point as a vehicle for outright betting.
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ShaunWhite
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Kai wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:13 pm
I don't remember seeing a single warning about it anywhere (besides the obvious fine print on Betfair's website). I may be blind but I don't see a pinned topic on the forum called "You must understand the commission structure before you start trading!", and correct me if I'm wrong but it's not a part of Peter's masterclass etc, or any other dozen of classes that I've seen over the years.
+1
It's a harsh reality kai, office admin isn't sexy.

I did try and start a thread 2½ years ago called "So you want to make a living from trading" which addressed some of the dull facts but it didn't run for long. I didn't specifically mention fees, but did say "I strongly advise that you properly work out your operating cost forecast" which says it all. But me saying that has zero influence, if Peter said it they'd all sit up and take notice.
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