Coronavirus - A pale horse,4 men and ....beer

[firlandsfarm]

You don't keep around symbols/monuments honoring fascists for example because you don't want to honor them, but you also don't throw away the science they discovered or the buildings they made, or the roads they built. On the one hand you don't want to memorialize them, on the other is pragmatism. There's nothing practical about a statue/memorial. And it's not merely a testament to history either. You don't memorialize every significant event in history, just the ones that deserve a special place. It's perfectly legitimate to consider that an individual no longer deserves a special place and does not imply that you have to topple western civilization in order to do that. The place to preserve and scrutinize history is in the museum, not in the town square.

I actually take your point sa7med and agree the principle but my point has always been and will always remain it's not for an undemocratic mob of 10,000 to make that decision … an unelected mob of 10,000 does not a majority make in a country of 50 million eligible voters. Where such memorials are in public ownership decisions should be taken by elected representatives of the public after taking soundings and without the pressure of the mob (and I include certain media within that mob). To start they should set out the criteria they will apply and seek some form of general public acceptance of that criteria.

[Derek27]

Police have published photographs of five people responsible for bringing down the statue in Bristol.

[superfrank]

Police have published photographs of five people responsible for bringing down the statue in Bristol.

I'm pretty sure number 3 is Andy Cole!

[jamesedwards]

Police have published photographs of five people responsible for bringing down the statue in Bristol.

I'm pretty sure number 3 is Andy Cole!

They are mostly wearing facemasks! Cunning...

[Trader Pat]

Number 4 looks like Tyson Fury!

[greenmark]

Have to admit I'm not in favour of tearing down statues/renaming public facilities (streets even) of people assosciated with slavery.
Our country is dripping with artefacts of various eras of invasion, rape and pillage.
Are we supposed to destory it all?
All our Viking, Norman, Roman references?
It reminds me of Islamic State trashing ancient sites.
There's an inability to accept stuff that happened yonks ago, but shaped our country.
Should we ask for reparations from Scandanavia, Italy and France?
That woud be preposterous.
The issue isn't slave traders, it's contemporary racism. BLM should be focussing on that, rather than anarchic, mindless destruction.
The violent vandals undermine a genuine cause.

[Dallas]

I was thinking similar things re tearing down statues and monuments, there was nothing really fair about our or any other countries history, take every poor men, women and children practically forced to work upto 18hrs a day 7 days a week or stave

Look at just the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries countless navvies have died with no care what so ever for them during the construction of bridges, canal's, railways etc yet we have statues honouring the Engineers like Stephenson, Brunell, Telford, Bridgewater who profited from there expoltation, not to mention the mill and factory owners that became insanly wealthy off the suffering and deaths of many people.

Also the first women to be sent to American were sent over after being bought by English settlers and farmers as wives yet i'm sure there must be statues, monuments buildings still named after the King at the time.

[Derek27]

Police have published photographs of five people responsible for bringing down the statue in Bristol.

I'm pretty sure number 3 is Andy Cole!

I've spotted spreadbetting in there.

[sniffer66]

Police have published photographs of five people responsible for bringing down the statue in Bristol.

I'm pretty sure number 3 is Andy Cole!

Call me dumb but wouldn't it have been simpler to arrest them at the time of the offence ? Or do we not do that now ?

[firlandsfarm]

Call me dumb but wouldn't it have been simpler to arrest them at the time of the offence ? Or do we not do that now ?

They don't do that anymore because the 'mob' rules. The current thinking is that to arrest them at the scene will incite more thuggery and is to be avoided.

[sniffer66]

Call me dumb but wouldn't it have been simpler to arrest them at the time of the offence ? Or do we not do that now ?

They don't do that anymore because the 'mob' rules. The current thinking is that to arrest them at the scene will incite more thuggery and is to be avoided.

So, the police just give out the message that the mob can do wtf they like and you'll only be arrested if they can find you afterwards ?

And the deterrent in that would be ??

[firlandsfarm]

So, the police just give out the message that the mob can do wtf they like and you'll only be arrested if they can find you afterwards ?

And the deterrent in that would be ??

There is no deterrent except if you are unlucky enough to get a hand on your shoulder later if identified and traced (and knowing that, they mostly wear face coverings). To me the wearing of a face mask at a gathering is clear evidence of intent to break the law … a defence of "I didn't want to get my face sunburnt" wouldn't work with me in the jury!

I expect the police would have a line drawn somewhere possibly where the immediate crimes are worse than the escalation caused by their intervention. This is not gospel sniffer, it's just my take on snippets picked up in news reports and police interviews. I may be completely wrong but it does fit the evidence. I think it's totally unacceptable.

[Derek27]

Did the police have the manpower to stop them? Off memory, I don't remember seeing many police around when the statue was pulled down.

[firlandsfarm]

You are probably right Derek but that in itself is a poor show. The police know where these demonstrations are being held and should call up support from other areas/forces. I bet if it was to be a right wing demonstration they would be there in force!

[Archery1969]

You are probably right Derek but that in itself is a poor show. The police know where these demonstrations are being held and should call up support from other areas/forces. I bet if it was to be a right wing demonstration they would be there in force!

We have around 82,000 soldiers minus 30% currently on active deployment available to help out. Obviously not carrying an SA80 or bayonet.