Loss of concentration

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wabash
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:45 pm

Have you ever tried trading were you are refusing to allow losses?

I think most money is lost when we lose concentration and make a big loss.

It is easy to gain an advantage, well .

The problem is panicking when a big loss comes, big losses are when you go in play when you were not supposed to.

I have a problem taking losses. To get over it, I can take a loss and take a small stake in play.

Provided that you do not go overboard, that is better than going in play looking for a change in the market.

I am also lazy when it comes to scalping football matches.

Plus I do not go out of my way to trade tennis, I need to automate everything more.

You cannot trade 2 hours straight without a break.

There are markets which require you to bring out money money, because trading them with small money is stupid. Group 1 races, golf tournament, Cheltenham need more capital.
rik
Posts: 1583
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:16 am
Location: London

wabash wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:24 am
Have you ever tried trading were you are refusing to allow losses?
i tried more i cut out the losses the less i won as well total dead end
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Morbius
Posts: 492
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:38 pm

wabash wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:24 am
Have you ever tried trading were you are refusing to allow losses?

I think most money is lost when we lose concentration and make a big loss.

It is easy to gain an advantage, well .

The problem is panicking when a big loss comes, big losses are when you go in play when you were not supposed to.

I have a problem taking losses. To get over it, I can take a loss and take a small stake in play.

Provided that you do not go overboard, that is better than going in play looking for a change in the market.

I am also lazy when it comes to scalping football matches.

Plus I do not go out of my way to trade tennis, I need to automate everything more.

You cannot trade 2 hours straight without a break.

There are markets which require you to bring out money money, because trading them with small money is stupid. Group 1 races, golf tournament, Cheltenham need more capital.

Wabash......nothing is lost by a lack of concentration, that is a misconception and total crap pushed by peddlers who say that "trading psychology" is the bedrock of success. You can't "concentrate" your way to trading success. This is about knowledge and precise knowledge at that. Without the right knowledge and then building that into a trading plan that allows you to do specific things at specific times in ALL situations then you basically have nothing.

If you can't trade 2 hours without a break then something is wrong. An analogy can be seen with comparing a learner driver with an experienced skilled one....who do you think works and concentrates the hardest...the learner of course simply because the skill and experience of the other driver makes certain processes automatic and subconscious. This is a process you must travel and reach. When you have a plan that is born from study and research then there is no need to focus so intently.

In chess for example, professional players do the bulk of their work AWAY from the board and not at it....PREPARATION....PREPARATION....PREPARATION! I can trade for 5-6 hours quite easily but couldn't if I was concentrating that intensely. If you can't take losses, this has nothing to do with concentration lapses. This is to do with not being properly programmed to take them. You can't concentrate yourself into not taking losses in the same way that a learner driver can't concentrate themselves into not making a mistake on the road, they will always make mistakes by a lack of knowledge and experience.

You are clearly at a very early stage in your development. That screams out otherwise you wouldn't be asking the questions and saying the things you are. My advice would be to take several months away and study financial markets and to build a system that will allow you to do the right things....trust me...it will be time well spent and you will return a much better trader
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Morbius
Posts: 492
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:38 pm

rik wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:09 am
wabash wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:24 am
Have you ever tried trading were you are refusing to allow losses?
i tried more i cut out the losses the less i won as well total dead end

I went down this process Rik and it is a road that you probably should travel but at the end of it comes experience and insight. Trading to reduce losses is moving away from trading efficiency because the bulk of profitable systems have a rate of loss. The biased coin experiment online is a classic case in point where a coin is biased to come down 60% heads. The optimal results using full Kelly Criterion show tremendous profits but those profits come with a 40% rate of loss. The edge comes not from reducing losses but from maximising gains and betting efficiently.
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Kafkaesque
Posts: 886
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:20 am

Morbius wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:40 am
wabash wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:24 am
Have you ever tried trading were you are refusing to allow losses?

I think most money is lost when we lose concentration and make a big loss.

It is easy to gain an advantage, well .

The problem is panicking when a big loss comes, big losses are when you go in play when you were not supposed to.

I have a problem taking losses. To get over it, I can take a loss and take a small stake in play.

Provided that you do not go overboard, that is better than going in play looking for a change in the market.

I am also lazy when it comes to scalping football matches.

Plus I do not go out of my way to trade tennis, I need to automate everything more.

You cannot trade 2 hours straight without a break.

There are markets which require you to bring out money money, because trading them with small money is stupid. Group 1 races, golf tournament, Cheltenham need more capital.

Wabash......nothing is lost by a lack of concentration, that is a misconception and total crap pushed by peddlers who say that "trading psychology" is the bedrock of success. You can't "concentrate" your way to trading success. This is about knowledge and precise knowledge at that. Without the right knowledge and then building that into a trading plan that allows you to do specific things at specific times in ALL situations then you basically have nothing.

If you can't trade 2 hours without a break then something is wrong. An analogy can be seen with comparing a learner driver with an experienced skilled one....who do you think works and concentrates the hardest...the learner of course simply because the skill and experience of the other driver makes certain processes automatic and subconscious. This is a process you must travel and reach. When you have a plan that is born from study and research then there is no need to focus so intently.

In chess for example, professional players do the bulk of their work AWAY from the board and not at it....PREPARATION....PREPARATION....PREPARATION! I can trade for 5-6 hours quite easily but couldn't if I was concentrating that intensely. If you can't take losses, this has nothing to do with concentration lapses. This is to do with not being properly programmed to take them. You can't concentrate yourself into not taking losses in the same way that a learner driver can't concentrate themselves into not making a mistake on the road, they will always make mistakes by a lack of knowledge and experience.

You are clearly at a very early stage in your development. That screams out otherwise you wouldn't be asking the questions and saying the things you are. My advice would be to take several months away and study financial markets and to build a system that will allow you to do the right things....trust me...it will be time well spent and you will return a much better trader
Spot on.

Just to add. The issue isn't mentally accepting a loss. Or rather it shouldn't be. If you truly can't follow a loss by taking three deep breaths
and moving on then it isn't for you, and you should run as fast as you can away from trading.

Beyond that, imo you should look at it this way. If you expect to make 1 unit on average at a single market, and you run into a 10 unit loss, then the skill isn't a mental game. It's a skill of looking at it post-trade and analyse what happened. Why did it happen? Should it have been a 5 unit loss? A 3 unit loss? Most importantly learning why 3-5 became 10 units and applying what you learned in future trades.

Going further, the more confidence you have that 1 unit per market is actually a true expectation, the easier it is to accept a loss. Along the lines of what Morbius said.

Looking into books on the mentality/psychology of similar fields with more history. Chess or poker are good shouts. Obviously not everything will be transferable but there is plenty overlaps imo. There's just too many throwing BS advice around when it comes to trading.
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Morbius
Posts: 492
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:38 pm

Kafkaesque wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:04 am
Morbius wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:40 am
wabash wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:24 am
Have you ever tried trading were you are refusing to allow losses?

I think most money is lost when we lose concentration and make a big loss.

It is easy to gain an advantage, well .

The problem is panicking when a big loss comes, big losses are when you go in play when you were not supposed to.

I have a problem taking losses. To get over it, I can take a loss and take a small stake in play.

Provided that you do not go overboard, that is better than going in play looking for a change in the market.

I am also lazy when it comes to scalping football matches.

Plus I do not go out of my way to trade tennis, I need to automate everything more.

You cannot trade 2 hours straight without a break.

There are markets which require you to bring out money money, because trading them with small money is stupid. Group 1 races, golf tournament, Cheltenham need more capital.

Wabash......nothing is lost by a lack of concentration, that is a misconception and total crap pushed by peddlers who say that "trading psychology" is the bedrock of success. You can't "concentrate" your way to trading success. This is about knowledge and precise knowledge at that. Without the right knowledge and then building that into a trading plan that allows you to do specific things at specific times in ALL situations then you basically have nothing.

If you can't trade 2 hours without a break then something is wrong. An analogy can be seen with comparing a learner driver with an experienced skilled one....who do you think works and concentrates the hardest...the learner of course simply because the skill and experience of the other driver makes certain processes automatic and subconscious. This is a process you must travel and reach. When you have a plan that is born from study and research then there is no need to focus so intently.

In chess for example, professional players do the bulk of their work AWAY from the board and not at it....PREPARATION....PREPARATION....PREPARATION! I can trade for 5-6 hours quite easily but couldn't if I was concentrating that intensely. If you can't take losses, this has nothing to do with concentration lapses. This is to do with not being properly programmed to take them. You can't concentrate yourself into not taking losses in the same way that a learner driver can't concentrate themselves into not making a mistake on the road, they will always make mistakes by a lack of knowledge and experience.

You are clearly at a very early stage in your development. That screams out otherwise you wouldn't be asking the questions and saying the things you are. My advice would be to take several months away and study financial markets and to build a system that will allow you to do the right things....trust me...it will be time well spent and you will return a much better trader
Spot on.

Just to add. The issue isn't mentally accepting a loss. Or rather it shouldn't be. If you truly can't follow a loss by taking three deep breaths
and moving on then it isn't for you, and you should run as fast as you can away from trading.

Beyond that, imo you should look at it this way. If you expect to make 1 unit on average at a single market, and you run into a 10 unit loss, then the skill isn't a mental game. It's a skill of looking at it post-trade and analyse what happened. Why did it happen? Should it have been a 5 unit loss? A 3 unit loss? Most importantly learning why 3-5 became 10 units and applying what you learned in future trades.

Going further, the more confidence you have that 1 unit per market is actually a true expectation, the easier it is to accept a loss. Along the lines of what Morbius said.

Looking into books on the mentality/psychology of similar fields with more history. Chess or poker are good shouts. Obviously not everything will be transferable but there is plenty overlaps imo. There's just too many throwing BS advice around when it comes to trading.

yeah good post, this is what makes trading so darn difficult. A combination of bad advice, conflict of opinion and even good successful traders either not telling the truth or telling you strategies that don't fit in with your personality make it a tough nut to crack. When you throw in your own personal issues of idleness and greed and everything else then its no wonder its almost impossible for most people. I spent a lot of time learning "strategies" from good traders that didn't suit me......that prolongs the learning curve too but you do come out of the other end a wiser trader if a little bruised.
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MemphisFlash
Posts: 2126
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 10:12 pm
Location: Leicester

I traded for around 10-12 hours yesterday, it was not tiring at all, in fact once you get used to it, trading can be very theraputic. I did not expect to be trading that long, it just happened and was enjoyable. My advice would be to enjoy it more, concentrate less, focus on your stategy, stick to it, and in time everything will become second nature and you won't notice the hours flying by.
If your not enjoying it then why are you doing it?
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wearthefoxhat
Posts: 3205
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:55 am

OP might be talking about the lack of attention span.

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wabash
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:45 pm

I have been super careful and picky, I have doubled my capital in 3 days trading.

I am only playing markets I know very well.

Most people can make money, the problem is when a big loss comes, they they lose emotional control and chase losses.

But limiting your losses you become more in control.
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Morbius
Posts: 492
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:38 pm

wabash wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:24 pm
I have been super careful and picky, I have doubled my capital in 3 days trading.

I am only playing markets I know very well.

Most people can make money, the problem is when a big loss comes, they they lose emotional control and chase losses.

But limiting your losses you become more in control.

Wabash....you must understand something.....losing control is a derivative of something. It is a sign of an incorrect mind set and a lack of training. Limiting losses is limiting damage but isn't creating control. Any trader without the correct knowledge will simply lose in a different way if they limit losses....it is a total fallacy that stop losses protect you. You can lose big chunks or you can experience death by a thousand cuts....a trader without the correct knowledge is terminal to their own account, the only thing that differs is in how its lost. No rookie trader that has travelled the journey to evolve into a seasoned trader will chase losses simply because they have left that way of thinking behind....they would no more do that than stab themselves in the arm.

Education is the only way forward, it is THIS that creates control just like it is driving skill that creates control with a motor car....not how fast you drive. There are too many traders simply fiddling around on the exchanges with little idea of what they are doing and showing no inclination to do any real learning. There is no short cut with this, it is like getting a pension...you only get out what you put in. Not saying this is you but all I see on this forum is people saying similar things and wanting quick fixes to what is a longer term journey. Learning to and becoming a trader requires more commitment to learning than what the overwhelming majority of traders are prepared to do.

Given how much learning is involved, the best way forward for most people would not be to trade at all....sorry if that seems harsh but ALL IN OR ALL OUT!!!!
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