Betfair Account Restrictions & closed accounts - Getting them removed and accounts reopened

News, chat and debate about the Betfair betting exchange.
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zippus
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:19 pm

BeastofBrine wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 8:59 am
I've been browsing this thread with a sense of dread, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Has anyone here started any contingency planning with respect to what they'll do if trading/betting on the exchange becomes untenable? Those for whom retirement is not an option and normal careers are utterly distasteful, obviously.

I've had a brief look at the sharp bookies that can be accessed abroad and noticed that they typically have API's attached to them, suggesting that trading set-ups might be possible; though I do see lots of people complaining that the likes of Pinnacle had their heyday long ago, and that a lot of markets now have ghastly overrounds. Setting up somewhere like Gibraltar could work if the latter is overblown.

The other approach that could work is realising the GC's nightmare and taking the unregulated route: I've seen at least one blockchain based bookie. If a genuine decentralised exchange were organised, it would be very difficult to stop anyone, anywhere using it.

I'd love to hear people's thoughts.
I totally agree with your sentiment concerning blockchain and a decentralised exchange. If you start to demonise gambling and move towards prohibition, it will just get pushed underground. I don't believe many people - and certainty not governments - will want this to happen. So they just need to be careful that they don't over-regulate. Moreover, they should start reigning in monopolies like BF that are claiming powers way beyond the current regulatory requirements all under the guise of 'social responsibility'.
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Kai
Posts: 6100
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:21 pm

Would clearing up the dark pool of Betfair come at a big cost of liquidity or would it bring more new money into play?
zippus
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:19 pm

Kai wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 1:21 pm
Would clearing up the dark pool of Betfair come at a big cost of liquidity or would it bring more new money into play?
I just see big threats to BF's liquidity. For every winner, there has to be a loser. Take out the losers, even temporarily whilst these affordability checks are underway, the money available for winners will start to dry up. I'm not sure there is that much more 'new money' in the U.K. Expansion overseas will be key to growing liquidity in my view.
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Morbius
Posts: 492
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:38 pm

zippus wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 1:38 pm
Kai wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 1:21 pm
Would clearing up the dark pool of Betfair come at a big cost of liquidity or would it bring more new money into play?
I just see big threats to BF's liquidity. For every winner, there has to be a loser. Take out the losers, even temporarily whilst these affordability checks are underway, the money available for winners will start to dry up. I'm not sure there is that much more 'new money' in the U.K. Expansion overseas will be key to growing liquidity in my view.

As a trader you don't need more liquidity. You just need enough liquidity. The betting market needs exchanges so they aren't going anywhere soon. An analogy could be swimming a mile in length. You don't need more water to swim a mile. You just need enough water to sustain you body weight and swimming a mile can be done in a 50m pool.

There has been dark liquidity in financial markets for a long time. Its not always a bad thing either as it has pros and cons. They offer advantages to certain operators who without that ability to trade discreetly at better prices than they would get because of market impact may take their business elsewhere.

Dark liquidity and icebergs are just another obstacle a trader has to defeat along their trading life. You can't have it hunky dory year after year in risk markets I'm afraid.
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Morbius
Posts: 492
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:38 pm

Kai wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 1:21 pm
Would clearing up the dark pool of Betfair come at a big cost of liquidity or would it bring more new money into play?
As is often the case, big players need methods of operation not available to the masses to attract them to the game and allow them to operate on a larger level. But its difficult to answer a question without the relevant facts or enough of them so all we can do is speculate anyway but in terms of trading volatility, this may be irrelevant. I'm not saying your point is irrelevant just that getting the facts is so difficult that the point is moot
libor88
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:51 am

Is there still an option to set up company and trading on betfair as regular business ? And of course paying regular taxes in selected country where Bf is 100 % legal. Am I right with this idea? sorry for my english.
tumby
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:49 pm

libor88 wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 7:13 pm
Is there still an option to set up company and trading on betfair as regular business ? And of course paying regular taxes in selected country where Bf is 100 % legal. Am I right with this idea? sorry for my english.
I am based in the UK and for various reasons do my betting through a company and pay taxes as a result. So yes this is possible, not sure it helps with the problem though. If volumes fall across the board it will be harder to make money however you dress it up.
zippus
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:19 pm

Got my account reactivated today! Happy days.
Trader Pat
Posts: 4327
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

zippus wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 1:36 pm
Got my account reactivated today! Happy days.
Well done mate!

Did you have to jump through many hoops?
zippus
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:19 pm

Thanks. Yes I had to provide some quite intrusive documents - 3 months bank statements and last three payslips. Got a call from BF today and they ran through some basic questions all geared around affordability and responsible gambling but I have to say the person on the phone was very friendly and professional.

In my case, the only condition is an enforced deposit limit. (It is now monthly and equates to approx. half my net pay). I can live with this and it’s still a workable amount.
Trader Pat
Posts: 4327
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

I suppose it all comes down to how much you're trying to deposit but you hear stories of people trying to deposit €100 and getting asked to supply the same kind of documentation which is ridiculous.
Custom Cut
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat May 22, 2021 5:00 pm

Hello everyone, new user here (only really registering to post in this thread) because I think I might as well add my voice to the chorus here. I've been betting on betfair for years but started to scale things up last year. I've only broken even since then but have made significant deposits. In April I was sent an email telling me I would need to prove my source of wealth or else my deposits would be severely limited. Like many, my reaction was just to not make any deposits as I already have enough money in my account. Then on Monday my account was closed abruptly, I've sent what documents I have but have heard nothing back, other than an acknowledgement the documents have been received.

I just don't get it. I haven't asked to make any more deposits, I wasn't warned my account could be closed if I failed to provide documents, and I'm a breakeven customer over the last year. I'm concerned I might not get my account back as my source of wealth is somewhat irregular and I can't see them being satisfied to let me deposit large sums again, although I would settle for simply being allowed to bet again. It just seems like a ridiculous way to run a company, I'm not expecting any major help from this forum as it seems everyone is having to go through this crap, but I might as well make my complaint known. It's also infuriating that I can't find anyone at betfair who knows what they're talking about, the live chat are happy to help but know nothing, and they're very slow to respond to emails.

Looking at the length of time it took Zippus to get sorted I'm feeling pessimistic.
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wearthefoxhat
Posts: 3207
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:55 am

Custom Cut wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 5:19 pm
Hello everyone, new user here (only really registering to post in this thread) because I think I might as well add my voice to the chorus here. I've been betting on betfair for years but started to scale things up last year. I've only broken even since then but have made significant deposits. In April I was sent an email telling me I would need to prove my source of wealth or else my deposits would be severely limited. Like many, my reaction was just to not make any deposits as I already have enough money in my account. Then on Monday my account was closed abruptly, I've sent what documents I have but have heard nothing back, other than an acknowledgement the documents have been received.

I just don't get it. I haven't asked to make any more deposits, I wasn't warned my account could be closed if I failed to provide documents, and I'm a breakeven customer over the last year. I'm concerned I might not get my account back as my source of wealth is somewhat irregular and I can't see them being satisfied to let me deposit large sums again, although I would settle for simply being allowed to bet again. It just seems like a ridiculous way to run a company, I'm not expecting any major help from this forum as it seems everyone is having to go through this crap, but I might as well make my complaint known. It's also infuriating that I can't find anyone at betfair who knows what they're talking about, the live chat are happy to help but know nothing, and they're very slow to respond to emails.

Looking at the length of time it took Zippus to get sorted I'm feeling pessimistic.
That's a new turn of events for sure.

There are plenty in that position, if they go too far, it could seriously undermine the whole exchange.

I understand the money laundering side of things and how the exchanges can be abused, but I predict that the guilty parties have long gone and are focussing on crypto before the respective governments catch up with them there too.
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napshnap
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:21 am

wearthefoxhat wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 7:09 pm
Custom Cut wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 5:19 pm
Hello everyone...
There are plenty in that position, if they go too far, it could seriously undermine the whole exchange.
And there will be (if not already is) a snowball effect: less losers -> less silly money -> more regulars become losers.
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napshnap
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:21 am

Custom Cut wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 5:19 pm
Hello everyone ...
Don't worry pal, you can always lose your money in financial markets cause regulators don't give a single fk letting poor souls to lose their last trousers there cause, you know - (read with silly voice) GAMBLN IS BAAAAAD.
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