Betfair Account Restrictions & closed accounts - Getting them removed and accounts reopened

News, chat and debate about the Betfair betting exchange.
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Grinderman
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:44 pm

Yes, doesn't really say much at all. Politicians eh? The more of us that contact them though.
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firlandsfarm
Posts: 2688
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 8:20 am

Grinderman wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:54 am
This reply in from my MP

Thank you for contacting me about sports betting and the review of the Gambling Act 2005.

I know many people enjoy gambling and of course, everybody has the right to spend their own money enjoying themselves. But on the other hand, gambling addiction is highly serious and where a harm is clear, the Government has a duty and responsibility to tackle it.

I believe the law on gambling should be approached from a public health perspective to protect the vulnerable and particularly children and young people, but to allow others who choose to do so to gamble safely.

I welcome the gambling review because UK gambling legislation is more than 15 years old. It is right that the legislation is brought up to date. We need fit-for-purpose regulation that can keep up with the changing nature of gambling online. We must also ensure the right support is in place to tackle the highly serious matter of problem gambling.

I do, however, recognise the concerns you raise and I am aware of reports suggesting there could be an increase in unregulated betting activity on sport as a result of the Gambling Commission’s affordability proposals being consulted on alongside the Government’s review.

The Gambling Commission has said it does not necessarily consider it proportionate that an affordability assessment is undertaken on all customers. But it does feel online gambling operators should consider whether a customer is spending beyond their means, and therefore proposes an affordability assessment should be undertaken if certain loss thresholds are reached.

I believe we need a regulated and safe gambling industry both for the industry itself and for those who are at risk from gambling-related harm. Nevertheless, I agree the legislation must be evidence-based so the right measures can be targeted effectively to reduce gambling-related harm.

The Government says it is seeking to strike a careful balance between giving individuals the freedom to choose how they spend their own money, while protecting vulnerable people and their families from gambling-related harm.

I hope the full range of evidence and views will be considered throughout this process, and I will certainly continue to bear in mind the points you raise.

Thank you once again for contacting me and sharing your views.
Hi Grinderman, thanks for posting your MP's response to you. The thing that hit me immediately and this will probably apply to over 90% of those making this law, they don't understand the difference between betting (assessible outcomes) and gambling (chance outcomes). Could you post your letter to your MP ... maybe encourage more to write. :)
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firlandsfarm
Posts: 2688
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 8:20 am

wearthefoxhat wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:53 am
Currently, HMRC treat trading, and profits from trading/gambling, as non-taxable in the UK. If they go to the "US model" and tax it in some form, then, once this is proven to the trading platform, certain restrictions should be lifted, but kept in place for the more recreational punter.

If there are losses (as per a large % of businesses), then records are filed accordingly and no tax in that financial year. The govt/hmrc aren't gonna say to a bona fide, tax paying business, they can't invest larger amounts to make future profits. (Or, less than £12,500 personal tax allowance) Under those conditions, national insurance should also be paid too. (Registered as self employed too)
Hi WTFH, you and I took part in this thread Confused about tax on winnings? but there will be many who maybe have not seen it so I post a reminder here.
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Grinderman
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:44 pm

I used this provided by Hunter84 via his link on page 3 of this thread.

Write to your MP

I have also been working with a UK parliamentary contact who has a keen interest in betting to draw up a template letter/email to send to your MP. Here is what to do:
•Locate your MP here: https://members.parliament.uk/FindYourMP
•You will need to input your postcode and it will find your MP and their contact e-mail address.
•Once located, insert their name at the top and your name and address at the bottom and send the below.

Dear (insert MP name)

I am writing to express my deep concern about the current review into the Gambling Act and the suggestion by some campaigners that restrictive affordability limits are introduced to betting accounts held by recreational sports bettors.

The reason for my concern is what I would define as skilled betting on sports should not be treated in the same way as unskilled gambling on online casinos, slots or bingo. I spend many hours studying sports markets and would equate what I do to someone investing in the stock market. You do not have to face invasive affordability checks with this investing and I believe the prospect of having to send bookmakers bank statements and wage slips is a huge breach of privacy, a significant data risk and a gross infringement of liberty.

As well as this, I would argue that this is a sledgehammer to crack a nut solution, as evidence shows online slots and casino games have comparatively higher rates of problem gambling than, for example, horse betting. Introducing affordability checks for sports betting will simply drive punters to unregulated markets and hit the treasury revenues at a time the Country can least afford it.

I am therefore asking you to represent my views and contact Nigel Huddleston MP calling upon him to decouple sports and events betting from that in online casinos and reject intrusive affordability checks as part of this review.

Kind regards,

(insert name and address)
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firlandsfarm
Posts: 2688
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 8:20 am

Thanks Grinderman, sorry I didn't spot the original post. I will send it direct to Nigel Huddleston with a cc to my MP (Nusrat Ghani) because from past experience of corresponding with her she will not do anything that might disadvantage her career aspirations!

BTW using the postcode to find your MP is not fool proof, I doesn't work for me as my postcode is covered by 2 constituencies and the wrong one tried to claim me! :) It is a rare occurrence and mainly limited to rural areas where postcodes can cover a large area.
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wearthefoxhat
Posts: 3205
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:55 am

Maybe the Govt should look elsewhere...just saying.

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Grinderman
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:44 pm

Interesting situation with Cheltenham this year. Since lockdown I've only been trading the big meetings and Saturday TV meetings, so I only have a couple of grand in my account. When I do trade, I only use about £7k - £8k, then withdraw most of it straight after.

Now I have a £25k exposure limit and they recently limited my deposits to £5k a day. Naturally, I want my full bank for Cheltenham. So for the 5 days leading up to Cheltenham, I deposited £5k a day so that I was fully armed for the meeting. So, on the Monday as I have my full bank in there and I'm ready to go, a message pops up on my Betfair screen. Despite our efforts we have not been able to contact you. You are now limited to deposits of £100 a day. Get in touch or face further restrictions. Seems my sudden spike in activity has aroused them.

So I contact them and go through the 'are you sure you are in control?' routine. I explain to them that I'm not laying a horse to lose 5 grand and then sit back and hope it doesn't win.

Anyway, they tell me to just keep an eye on it and put my deposit limit back to £5k
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jamesedwards
Posts: 2234
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:16 pm

Grinderman wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:50 pm
Interesting situation with Cheltenham this year. Since lockdown I've only been trading the big meetings and Saturday TV meetings, so I only have a couple of grand in my account. When I do trade, I only use about £7k - £8k, then withdraw most of it straight after.

Now I have a £25k exposure limit and they recently limited my deposits to £5k a day. Naturally, I want my full bank for Cheltenham. So for the 5 days leading up to Cheltenham, I deposited £5k a day so that I was fully armed for the meeting. So, on the Monday as I have my full bank in there and I'm ready to go, a message pops up on my Betfair screen. Despite our efforts we have not been able to contact you. You are now limited to deposits of £100 a day. Get in touch or face further restrictions. Seems my sudden spike in activity has aroused them.

So I contact them and go through the 'are you sure you are in control?' routine. I explain to them that I'm not laying a horse to lose 5 grand and then sit back and hope it doesn't win.

Anyway, they tell me to just keep an eye on it and put my deposit limit back to £5k
I haven't deposited into Betfair for almost a year. I just know that if ever I need to deposit a few K to top up it's going to cause a whole heap of trouble. Therefore I find myself now with probably 3 or 4 times the balance that I really need stuck in Betfair. Thanks GC! :evil:
zippus
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:19 pm

Hello all,

I'm new to this forum and love what you guys do for the community.

I can add my case to this. So Betfair has just limited my account daily deposit to £75 per day. I didn't request it and it came out-of-the blue after I made a loss on Sunday 21st March. They claimed to have tried to contact me but didn't. I proactively contacted them, answered all their questions and was told the limit would be applied and reviewed over the next few days. I'm still waiting...

Now I understand that Betfair is trying to be proactive with the Gambling Commission but this is really ridiculous. To put it into context, I don't owe a single penny to anybody. I am a high-earner and accountant by trade, owning my own house, which is mortgage free. I've provided very intrusive information like my payslip, bank statement etc (affordability documents) to them recently, which appeared to resolve the issue previously. I'm trying to see if I'm any good at gambling / trading and have made mistakes over the past year that I'm learning from. I am a current net loser and it's quite possible it won't be something I can pursue but am working well within my means trying to chip away at the net deposit figure. Even after last Sunday's loss, I've made a profit over the past month using data driven automated trading.

I've contacted Customer Service twice and tried to get it reviewed. I have even asked to get put through to the Escalation Team. Nothing has come back.

I totally accept I'm currently loss making but I see it as an investment and have given myself this year to see if I can get back to break even with the strategies I have developed. I feel Betfair have taken away this opportunity for a couple of months (I'll now need 67 days to rebuild my £5k bank). Goodness knows what business model these guys are running. Surely it's up to me to decide how I spend my hard-earned, post-tax disposable income....

Any thoughts / assistance welcome.
Mr.Teeny
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:18 am

That sounds bad and quite worrying. You have my sympathies. It seems to be deposits that trigger it, whether you are winning or losing doesn’t seem to make much difference.

You should only be subject to those sort of intrusive checks if you are buying a house, or applying for credit. Being subjected to all that, and then still being told how much you’re allowed to deposit isn’t right.

I hope this isn’t going to be the future, as this will kill the industry, though it looks as if it’s already starting to happen.

You should be able to sign a disclaimer saying that you know what the risks of gambling are, and that you are betting with your own money. Which you have clearly admitted in your post, it’s not like you don’t know what you are doing.


This gambling review is causing all sorts of problems already. By all means ban the advertising, take the logos off football shirts, reduce the online slots and casino games to pennies, not many people would argue against that. But I don’t get how these affordability checks and deciding how much somebody is allowed to bet or deposit helps anybody.

So long as the money is clean and not ill gotten , it should be up to the individual to decide how much they want to deposit and bet.
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whimsies
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:37 am
Location: Uk

75 pound a day that's loads, I am restricted to 300 pound per week just because i am retired.
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jimibt
Posts: 3641
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:42 pm
Location: Narnia

Mr.Teeny wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:17 pm
That sounds bad and quite worrying. You have my sympathies. It seems to be deposits that trigger it, whether you are winning or losing doesn’t seem to make much difference.

You should only be subject to those sort of intrusive checks if you are buying a house, or applying for credit. Being subjected to all that, and then still being told how much you’re allowed to deposit isn’t right.

I hope this isn’t going to be the future, as this will kill the industry, though it looks as if it’s already starting to happen.

You should be able to sign a disclaimer saying that you know what the risks of gambling are, and that you are betting with your own money. Which you have clearly admitted in your post, it’s not like you don’t know what you are doing.


This gambling review is causing all sorts of problems already. By all means ban the advertising, take the logos off football shirts, reduce the online slots and casino games to pennies, not many people would argue against that. But I don’t get how these affordability checks and deciding how much somebody is allowed to bet or deposit helps anybody.

So long as the money is clean and not ill gotten , it should be up to the individual to decide how much they want to deposit and bet.
i'd bet that HMRC don't have quite so strict measures when *accepting* deposits!
ROCKY1982
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:51 pm

I can't see them lose such a huge industry just because couple of addicted gamblers most of the traders/gamblers know how to restrict and control themselves maybe 100 quid will be the default but it could be lifted
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Derek27
Posts: 23475
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

If they restrict all the losing accounts (no reference to you zippus) how are all the PC payers going to generate profits? The exchange will just dry up altogether!
zippus
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:19 pm

Derek27 wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:10 pm
If they restrict all the losing accounts (no reference to you zippus) how are all the PC payers going to generate profits? The exchange will just dry up altogether!
No problem Derek27. I totally agree with you. I'm a liquidity provider at the moment and have probably funded a few of you guys over the past 12 months! I have no problem with this. Nobody forced me into placing the bets - I did this out of my own free will. Where I do have a real problem is with BF acting like they own my money. Do they think I'm going to sue them an ask for the money back?! Of course not. (And btw - I'm not even a VIP member!) :lol:
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