Betfair Account Restrictions & closed accounts - Getting them removed and accounts reopened

News, chat and debate about the Betfair betting exchange.
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Euler
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Isn't there a perception issue here though that needs to be addressed. This isn't a dodgy overround bookmaker it's an exchange. Whole different model and Betfair are not doing a good job of representing that.
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LeTiss
Posts: 5386
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The Exchange is a completely different model to the Sportsbook.

One way around this (which may be a pain or even impossible to administer) is for people to deposit or withdraw money to an Exchange account/wallet within Betfair, rather than a BF account as a whole. This would seperate traders from punters and would stop some of the nonsense currently going on
weemac
Posts: 1216
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:16 pm

The model has nothing to do with it; no-one with political power cares whether Joe Bloggs spaffed his mortgage on a dodgy bookie site or on a reputable exchange, and no-one cares whether he's a 'gambler' or a 'trader'. This forum is littered with posters over the years who either can't/couldn't make trading pay or quietly disappeared. So the distinction between 'gambler' and 'trader' is irrelevant. You can lose money either way, so no-one cares what platform/model was used. Everyone's in the firing line.

The overriding issue is all betting companies being obliged to publicly demonstrate that they're dealing with out of control gamblers before restrictive legislation is imposed (which it will be fairly soon, imo). And all sorts of people are being caught in the crossfire - justifiably or not.

In any case, there's zero chance of public or political perceptions being changed given that the exchange model has been going for over 2 decades and still hardly anyone seems to understand it.
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jimibt
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weemac wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:13 pm
The model has nothing to do with it; no-one with political power cares whether Joe Bloggs spaffed his mortgage on a dodgy bookie site or on a reputable exchange, and no-one cares whether he's a 'gambler' or a 'trader'. This forum is littered with posters over the years who either can't/couldn't make trading pay or quietly disappeared. So the distinction between 'gambler' and 'trader' is irrelevant. You can lose money either way, so no-one cares what platform/model was used. Everyone's in the firing line.

The overriding issue is all betting companies being obliged to publicly demonstrate that they're dealing with out of control gamblers before restrictive legislation is imposed (which it will be fairly soon, imo). And all sorts of people are being caught in the crossfire - justifiably or not.

In any case, there's zero chance of public or political perceptions being changed given that the exchange model has been going for over 2 decades and still hardly anyone seems to understand it.
i know it's been mentioned before in this thread but will resurface it again. using platforms such as Binance, Coinbase, KuCoin etc allow you to spew far more money away in a day than Betfair does. however, the legislation around *investing* is hugely different and all that's in place is a basic KYC. that said, i personally make more use of binance these days than I do betfair, many of the lessons learnt on pre-racing coming in pretty useful for trading trending intra-day stuff (almost EVERYTHING moves when BTC moves).

maybe there's a niche to be carved out for a crypto angel. although there are offerings in the space, none have the kind of usability features that BA has. I've resorted to using a binance api in a very basic way. so Peter, any thoughts?? it is after all just another streaming data service!! :D
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Euler
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Location: Bet Angel HQ

Interesting idea
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jimibt
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Euler wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:14 pm
Interesting idea
your devs will *get it* - point them twds the Binance.Net nuget library as a starting point: https://www.nuget.org/packages/Binance.Net/

Install-Package Binance.Net -Version 7.2.4

This includes all the code needed to get account details, trade placement, order books, streaming prices, candlestick data etc, etc. there are some decent examples on git using this library (this is the source repo):

https://github.com/JKorf/Binance.Net

Could be very interesting - happy to bgeta test as have a lot of experience in this field now.
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Naffman
Posts: 5626
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:46 am

ShaunWhite wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:37 pm
xtrader16 wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:09 pm
. These people who make these decisions are morons.
There’s more to this than meets the eye as Betfair's recent experience in the Netherlands has shown.

They bent the governmental guidance, got their wrists slapped and now have to wait a year to get their new licence now the exchange regs have been relaxed. These gambling firms have to keep the regulators sweet rather than pleasing a few customers, it obviously doesn't suit them or anyone but that's the bigger game they have to play. It just takes one civil servent to say they haven't tried hard enough and it's bye-bye licence.
I was lucky enough to be fixed the day my account was suspended, however you can't defend BF surely on the way they've treated @Whopper, they've simply forgotten about the issue and left him waiting weeks, I highly doubt you'd have the same opinion if affected in the same way.
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wearthefoxhat
Posts: 3205
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:55 am

jimibt wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:02 pm
weemac wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:13 pm
The model has nothing to do with it; no-one with political power cares whether Joe Bloggs spaffed his mortgage on a dodgy bookie site or on a reputable exchange, and no-one cares whether he's a 'gambler' or a 'trader'. This forum is littered with posters over the years who either can't/couldn't make trading pay or quietly disappeared. So the distinction between 'gambler' and 'trader' is irrelevant. You can lose money either way, so no-one cares what platform/model was used. Everyone's in the firing line.

The overriding issue is all betting companies being obliged to publicly demonstrate that they're dealing with out of control gamblers before restrictive legislation is imposed (which it will be fairly soon, imo). And all sorts of people are being caught in the crossfire - justifiably or not.

In any case, there's zero chance of public or political perceptions being changed given that the exchange model has been going for over 2 decades and still hardly anyone seems to understand it.
i know it's been mentioned before in this thread but will resurface it again. using platforms such as Binance, Coinbase, KuCoin etc allow you to spew far more money away in a day than Betfair does. however, the legislation around *investing* is hugely different and all that's in place is a basic KYC. that said, i personally make more use of binance these days than I do betfair, many of the lessons learnt on pre-racing coming in pretty useful for trading trending intra-day stuff (almost EVERYTHING moves when BTC moves).

maybe there's a niche to be carved out for a crypto angel. although there are offerings in the space, none have the kind of usability features that BA has. I've resorted to using a binance api in a very basic way. so Peter, any thoughts?? it is after all just another streaming data service!! :D
Crypto-Angel great idea. :!:

Thinking it through, it would work well using Fiat currency for deposits and withdrawals. If crypto itself was used, it opens up a myriad of future complications for the user and C.A. business.

It's a volatile market, so would certainly offer opportunities for anyone that has a strategy that works well in those conditions.
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jimibt
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Location: Narnia

wearthefoxhat wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:24 am
jimibt wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:02 pm
weemac wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:13 pm
The model has nothing to do with it; no-one with political power cares whether Joe Bloggs spaffed his mortgage on a dodgy bookie site or on a reputable exchange, and no-one cares whether he's a 'gambler' or a 'trader'. This forum is littered with posters over the years who either can't/couldn't make trading pay or quietly disappeared. So the distinction between 'gambler' and 'trader' is irrelevant. You can lose money either way, so no-one cares what platform/model was used. Everyone's in the firing line.

The overriding issue is all betting companies being obliged to publicly demonstrate that they're dealing with out of control gamblers before restrictive legislation is imposed (which it will be fairly soon, imo). And all sorts of people are being caught in the crossfire - justifiably or not.

In any case, there's zero chance of public or political perceptions being changed given that the exchange model has been going for over 2 decades and still hardly anyone seems to understand it.
i know it's been mentioned before in this thread but will resurface it again. using platforms such as Binance, Coinbase, KuCoin etc allow you to spew far more money away in a day than Betfair does. however, the legislation around *investing* is hugely different and all that's in place is a basic KYC. that said, i personally make more use of binance these days than I do betfair, many of the lessons learnt on pre-racing coming in pretty useful for trading trending intra-day stuff (almost EVERYTHING moves when BTC moves).

maybe there's a niche to be carved out for a crypto angel. although there are offerings in the space, none have the kind of usability features that BA has. I've resorted to using a binance api in a very basic way. so Peter, any thoughts?? it is after all just another streaming data service!! :D
Crypto-Angel great idea. :!:

Thinking it through, it would work well using Fiat currency for deposits and withdrawals. If crypto itself was used, it opens up a myriad of future complications for the user and C.A. business.

It's a volatile market, so would certainly offer opportunities for anyone that has a strategy that works well in those conditions.

i did further toy with this in my head recently. a realisation that struck me was that the average age/demo of users on crypto exchanges is about half that of the seasoned users on betfair. i think therefore that the UI and rules would have to be presented via an app/web portal. *kids these days* don't really access services via pc's in the same way us oldies do. so would also be a great opportunity to wrestle with the likes of React/Blazor/Xamarin etc...

go for it :D
Whopper
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:26 pm

A week after contacting Peter, who redirected my email to betfair complains, they finally re-opened the account.

Almost 2 months out and I'm sure it would have been indefinitely suspension if I didn't follow the advice from some of you on this thread.

So, thank you guys!
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Euler
Posts: 24701
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

Good to hear this escalation path is working!
Custom Cut
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat May 22, 2021 5:00 pm

Custom Cut wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:33 pm
Custom Cut wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 5:19 pm
Hello everyone, new user here (only really registering to post in this thread) because I think I might as well add my voice to the chorus here. I've been betting on betfair for years but started to scale things up last year. I've only broken even since then but have made significant deposits. In April I was sent an email telling me I would need to prove my source of wealth or else my deposits would be severely limited. Like many, my reaction was just to not make any deposits as I already have enough money in my account. Then on Monday my account was closed abruptly, I've sent what documents I have but have heard nothing back, other than an acknowledgement the documents have been received.

I just don't get it. I haven't asked to make any more deposits, I wasn't warned my account could be closed if I failed to provide documents, and I'm a breakeven customer over the last year. I'm concerned I might not get my account back as my source of wealth is somewhat irregular and I can't see them being satisfied to let me deposit large sums again, although I would settle for simply being allowed to bet again. It just seems like a ridiculous way to run a company, I'm not expecting any major help from this forum as it seems everyone is having to go through this crap, but I might as well make my complaint known. It's also infuriating that I can't find anyone at betfair who knows what they're talking about, the live chat are happy to help but know nothing, and they're very slow to respond to emails.

Looking at the length of time it took Zippus to get sorted I'm feeling pessimistic.
Got my account back today, took them 2 weeks to respond to the first email and thought the process could take forever, I did e-mail the CEO as advised on another thread on this forum and that may have expedited the process as I was able to interact pretty quickly over the last couple of days both through emails and over the phone.

As for the level of details they eventually requested, it's roughly what I would've imagined given they were looking for a source of wealth. I still think it's a pretty intrusive thing to ask for though.
They're back, threatening to close my account unless I provide proof of income. Apparently my source of wealth is too long ago, and even though I've told them I don't need to make any more deposits, their argument is that I may not be able to pay my day to day expenses. Apparently they're doing a proof of income check to see if you have enough money for the rest of your life too, and it doesn't matter how much money in the bank you have (in my case 6 figures). I really don't know what to do.

One thing about this which is very sneaky is how they never tell you up front that your account is at risk of being closed. Many people will see the initial email and think "fine, I won't deposit" and the first time it happened my account was closed by surprise. This time I replied to their initial email informing me the deposits had been limited and only then was I told the account was at risk of being closed.
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jamesedwards
Posts: 2234
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:16 pm

Custom Cut wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:06 pm
Custom Cut wrote:
Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:33 pm
Custom Cut wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 5:19 pm
Hello everyone, new user here (only really registering to post in this thread) because I think I might as well add my voice to the chorus here. I've been betting on betfair for years but started to scale things up last year. I've only broken even since then but have made significant deposits. In April I was sent an email telling me I would need to prove my source of wealth or else my deposits would be severely limited. Like many, my reaction was just to not make any deposits as I already have enough money in my account. Then on Monday my account was closed abruptly, I've sent what documents I have but have heard nothing back, other than an acknowledgement the documents have been received.

I just don't get it. I haven't asked to make any more deposits, I wasn't warned my account could be closed if I failed to provide documents, and I'm a breakeven customer over the last year. I'm concerned I might not get my account back as my source of wealth is somewhat irregular and I can't see them being satisfied to let me deposit large sums again, although I would settle for simply being allowed to bet again. It just seems like a ridiculous way to run a company, I'm not expecting any major help from this forum as it seems everyone is having to go through this crap, but I might as well make my complaint known. It's also infuriating that I can't find anyone at betfair who knows what they're talking about, the live chat are happy to help but know nothing, and they're very slow to respond to emails.

Looking at the length of time it took Zippus to get sorted I'm feeling pessimistic.
Got my account back today, took them 2 weeks to respond to the first email and thought the process could take forever, I did e-mail the CEO as advised on another thread on this forum and that may have expedited the process as I was able to interact pretty quickly over the last couple of days both through emails and over the phone.

As for the level of details they eventually requested, it's roughly what I would've imagined given they were looking for a source of wealth. I still think it's a pretty intrusive thing to ask for though.
They're back, threatening to close my account unless I provide proof of income. Apparently my source of wealth is too long ago, and even though I've told them I don't need to make any more deposits, their argument is that I may not be able to pay my day to day expenses. Apparently they're doing a proof of income check to see if you have enough money for the rest of your life too, and it doesn't matter how much money in the bank you have (in my case 6 figures). I really don't know what to do.

One thing about this which is very sneaky is how they never tell you up front that your account is at risk of being closed. Many people will see the initial email and think "fine, I won't deposit" and the first time it happened my account was closed by surprise. This time I replied to their initial email informing me the deposits had been limited and only then was I told the account was at risk of being closed.
FFS! What are you supposed to do if Betfair IS your source of past and future expected wealth?
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Derek27
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Location: UK

jamesedwards wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:15 pm
FFS! What are you supposed to do if Betfair IS your source of past and future expected wealth?
Nobody told these idiots in short trousers that the exchange is a zero-sum game and people make a living from it. They think it's a recreational hobby and we're all losers.
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ANGELS15
Posts: 844
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:57 am

Derek27 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:27 pm
jamesedwards wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:15 pm
FFS! What are you supposed to do if Betfair IS your source of past and future expected wealth?
Nobody told these idiots in short trousers that the exchange is a zero-sum game and people make a living from it. They think it's a recreational hobby and we're all losers.
Yes it seems just like the major bookmakers, they just want 100s of 1000s of 50p (In Betfair's case £2) punters. The thing with that though is that those kind of punters don't go to the exchanges.
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