Betfair Account Restrictions & closed accounts - Getting them removed and accounts reopened

News, chat and debate about the Betfair betting exchange.
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Dallas
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Jordanauburn123 wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:01 pm
I think a fair few may be missing the crux of the issue when it comes to potential loss limits.

Let's say a loss limit of £1k per month is implemented. You may think that wouldn't affect you as you've never been a grand down in a month. The point, though, is that you would be restricted from opening up a lay side trade which exposed you in excess of £1k (a £100 lay at 12.0 wouldn't be possible), as it's not possible to know you plan to green up at any point.

Any loss limits of this kind, without generous exemptions for traders, would be a death knell.

Happy Saturday! :lol:
That would effectively limit all bets to no more than £1k
Jordanauburn123
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Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:55 am

It would, yes. Hence why it would destroy even semi pro trading as currently proposed. Worrying, but at the same time so absurd that I don’t think it will come to that.

The scenario I laid out has clearly not occurred to the proponents of the policy. Frankly they’re looking at it through a narrow lens - one where the bookie always wins. I doubt they even know this sort of trading exists.
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wearthefoxhat
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Jordanauburn123 wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:26 am
It would, yes. Hence why it would destroy even semi pro trading as currently proposed. Worrying, but at the same time so absurd that I don’t think it will come to that.

The scenario I laid out has clearly not occurred to the proponents of the policy. Frankly they’re looking at it through a narrow lens - one where the bookie always wins. I doubt they even know this sort of trading exists.

This is likely to occur in betting offices/on-line sportsbooks/on-line casinos/poker, if it goes through. (restrictions to a loss of £100 a month)

https://www.racingpost.com/news/warning ... les/470671
BeastofBrine
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The direction of travel for gambling regulation has been concerning me for some time, particularly because I plan to move to trading full time this year.
A number of people in this thread have already highlighted the pressures being brought to bear by anti-money-laundering legislation and the consumer protection lobby, but the way the UK regulates speculation/trading more generally is what has got me really worried.
The following article discusses the ban on trading crypto-currency derivatives, e.g. spreadbetting on the value of bitcoin, that came into effect this month: https://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/analys ... -advisers/
The key thing to note is that the FCA held a consultation, and 97% of the respondents opposed the ban. They then went ahead with it anyway.
This follows on from the previous ban on fixed odds bets on financial markets, also called binary betting (just in case you wonder why there is no longer a ‘financials’ section on Betfair). The justification given is also remarkably similar, couched in terms of difficultly of comprehension, financial risk to consumers, and the ‘lack of investment need’.
Technically, it is still possible to trade in these products if one is a ‘professional investor’. To give you a flavour of what that looks like in practice, it is someone who meets two of the following:
the client has carried out transactions, in significant size, on the relevant market at an average frequency of 10 per quarter over the previous four quarters; or
the size of the client's financial instrument portfolio, defined as including cash deposits and financial instruments, exceeds EUR 500,000; or
the client works or has worked in the financial sector for at least one year in a professional position, which requires knowledge of the transactions or services envisaged”
The only way I can see this kind of infantising nonsense being kept at bay in the gambling world, is if the large bookmakers are able to apply enough pressure to politicians by talking about job losses and loss of tax revenue. And we better hope they do, because I am absolutely certain that whatever pencil-pushers and apparatchiks are assigned to ‘modernise’ betting will not give a damn about Betfair traders, and will be just as likely to ignore their own consultation as the FCA.
Jordanauburn123
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Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:55 am

Agreed with the above. I’ve worked in Whitehall for a few years, and have worked on a few consultations (not in this area). Responses to calls for evidence are of course considered but there’s no hiding from the influence of tax revenue (in reality rather than officially) - and I think that’s the key difference between this and the btc example above.

As for these loss limits only applying to sportsbooks etc, I’ve read nothing in the consultation to suggest exchanges would be exempt. And I’m pretty sure this is because the proponents of the policy have absolutely no idea of the differences between sportsbooks and exchanges. Clearly there will be significant lobbying on this point so it’s just a watching brief atm. But please do respond to the consultation’s call for evidence!!!

I for one would be absolutely gutted if the nanny state fooks this up, as my automation is currently on fire.
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wearthefoxhat
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BeastofBrine wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:50 am
The direction of travel for gambling regulation has been concerning me for some time, particularly because I plan to move to trading full time this year.
A number of people in this thread have already highlighted the pressures being brought to bear by anti-money-laundering legislation and the consumer protection lobby, but the way the UK regulates speculation/trading more generally is what has got me really worried.
The following article discusses the ban on trading crypto-currency derivatives, e.g. spreadbetting on the value of bitcoin, that came into effect this month: https://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/analys ... -advisers/
The key thing to note is that the FCA held a consultation, and 97% of the respondents opposed the ban. They then went ahead with it anyway.
This follows on from the previous ban on fixed odds bets on financial markets, also called binary betting (just in case you wonder why there is no longer a ‘financials’ section on Betfair). The justification given is also remarkably similar, couched in terms of difficultly of comprehension, financial risk to consumers, and the ‘lack of investment need’.
Technically, it is still possible to trade in these products if one is a ‘professional investor’. To give you a flavour of what that looks like in practice, it is someone who meets two of the following:
the client has carried out transactions, in significant size, on the relevant market at an average frequency of 10 per quarter over the previous four quarters; or
the size of the client's financial instrument portfolio, defined as including cash deposits and financial instruments, exceeds EUR 500,000; or
the client works or has worked in the financial sector for at least one year in a professional position, which requires knowledge of the transactions or services envisaged”
The only way I can see this kind of infantising nonsense being kept at bay in the gambling world, is if the large bookmakers are able to apply enough pressure to politicians by talking about job losses and loss of tax revenue. And we better hope they do, because I am absolutely certain that whatever pencil-pushers and apparatchiks are assigned to ‘modernise’ betting will not give a damn about Betfair traders, and will be just as likely to ignore their own consultation as the FCA.
For me, it's important to be aware of the developments and plan accordingly.

Currently, HMRC treat trading, and profits from trading/gambling, as non-taxable in the UK. If they go to the "US model" and tax it in some form, then, once this is proven to the trading platform, certain restrictions should be lifted, but kept in place for the more recreational punter.

If there are losses (as per a large % of businesses), then records are filed accordingly and no tax in that financial year. The govt/hmrc aren't gonna say to a bona fide, tax paying business, they can't invest larger amounts to make future profits. (Or, less than £12,500 personal tax allowance) Under those conditions, national insurance should also be paid too. (Registered as self employed too)

Finding something that you can work from home and make money, is in the fore front of lot of people's minds after during/after covid, as the landscape for travelling to an office/premises is likely to change in the next 3-5 years and onwards.

The FOBT's took quite a while to be restricted and the bookies made millions during that time. One of the problems is that the "success" of being able to restrict those, might go to their heads and restrict cart blanche, all things gambling.
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wearthefoxhat
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wearthefoxhat wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:53 am

Currently, HMRC treat trading, and profits from trading/gambling, as non-taxable in the UK. If they go to the "US model" and tax it in some form, then, once this is proven to the trading platform, certain restrictions should be lifted, but kept in place for the more recreational punter.
Just thought;

Will they restrict the lottery purchases/scratch cards in the same way too?
Will they go the way of Spain and tax winnings?
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goat68
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This is all potentially worrying, if you think of the sequence of events, people like me which will frequently hit £100 loss will just give up. So the dumb money as it were is driven away, just leaving Smart money vs Smart money, which will make life difficult for them driving Smart money to give up...end of Betfair.....
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goat68
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On the flip side, I remember reading Thomas's blog, making the ethical point that the large money he makes is at a deficit to many others...So he makes 100k a year from some addicted punters who lose 5k a year...?
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Realrocknrolla
Posts: 1903
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:15 pm

goat68 wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:43 am
end of Betfair.....
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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goat68
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Realrocknrolla wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:52 am
goat68 wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:43 am
end of Betfair.....
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
And?
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goat68
Posts: 2019
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Location: Hampshire, UK

Brexit, that will never happen....haha
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ilovepizza82
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lol
Most people have £5000 deposit limit.
Ive had it ever since i remember.
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Realrocknrolla
Posts: 1903
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:15 pm

goat68 wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:04 pm
Realrocknrolla wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:52 am
goat68 wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:43 am
end of Betfair.....
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
And?
"Betfair claims to have over 4 million customers (1.1 million active customers) and a turnover in excess of £50 million a week." 2014
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The Silk Run
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If I was in a position to lobby I would end the monopoly and encourage regulated competition to the exchanges. Paddy Power Betfair should not be included in this as they manage their business like a monopoly game board !!!
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