TPD (Total performance data)
- ShaunWhite
- Posts: 9731
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
I think it was the case that early on you just got 2d co-ordinates and didn't even have the course layouts mapped to refer to. It seemed pretty maths heavy to get much out of it. eg you needed speed and a bearing otherwise just the 'fastest' horse could be heading across the fields.
I'm not an inplay trader but I sort of get the impression (maybe wrongly) from those that are, don't see it as a thing they must have... which speaks volumes to me.jamesedwards wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:18 pmI tried this for a while but I found GPS accuracy to be a big problem. IMO it is very useful as a guide to what is happening, but can't be used as fact. Roughly 10-20% of the races I tried it for the software had the wrong horse in front at the finish line, for example.
The odds obviously reflect what is happening on course & the inplay trader tool it seems is a much better representation. Feedback of opinion every 20ms is much better than feedback of position every 300ms.
I do like the others features though, such as par time, how each runner is doing in comparison to the fav, the visual of the track (rough position too), how many hurdles/furlongs are left. Could be a seperate add on, like soccer mystic/tennis trader or maybe an addition to the tool that's already there. I don't know what's in the pipeline and if people are that bothered either... I'd imagine inplay traders probably already have such knowledge hard wired in to their brains.
- ShaunWhite
- Posts: 9731
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
I always assumed in-play experts took their cues from how a horse looked and moved rather than raw position/current speed stats. I'm not horsey but even I can tell the difference between one that looks knackered and one that's cruising. The GPS data would be more use to a blind bot than an eyes-on trader but I haven't heard of any that see a big enough gain to pay for it.
GPS feels a bit dated and clumsy, it can't be long before more sophisticated video analysis turns up once the cost of entry comes down. Gait analysis which gets used in the Far East more than face recognition is probably the stepping stone.
GPS feels a bit dated and clumsy, it can't be long before more sophisticated video analysis turns up once the cost of entry comes down. Gait analysis which gets used in the Far East more than face recognition is probably the stepping stone.
Pace can be quite deceptive to the eye. It's a disadvantage to be too close to an overly strong pace (unless it suits the horses running style) or giving significant ground in a slowly run race. When several horses are pulling and fighting their jockey it gives the impression that the pace is slow but that's not always the case, so current speed/times would be useful if you've done the maths and know what sort of pace you're expecting.ShaunWhite wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:48 pmI always assumed in-play experts took their cues from how a horse looked and moved rather than raw position/current speed stats. I'm not horsey but even I can tell the difference between one that looks knackered and one that's cruising. The GPS data would be more use to a blind bot than an eyes-on trader but I haven't heard of any that see a big enough gain to pay for it.
GPS feels a bit dated and clumsy, it can't be long before more sophisticated video analysis turns up once the cost of entry comes down. Gait analysis which gets used in the Far East more than face recognition is probably the stepping stone.
I've never used GPS much before but I went out for a run last week. When I looked at the GPS map on my smartphone I couldn't believe how accurate it was! It claimed that I took a short cut and ran through a few front gardens but other than that the line was bang on the pavement.
You won't want to know what my average speed was!
- jamesedwards
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:16 pm
One of the main selling points is latency vs video. It is supposed to be less than half a second behind real time which beats normal video hands down. As video technology improved and latency reduces this will of course become less relevant.ShaunWhite wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:48 pmI always assumed in-play experts took their cues from how a horse looked and moved rather than raw position/current speed stats. I'm not horsey but even I can tell the difference between one that looks knackered and one that's cruising. The GPS data would be more use to a blind bot than an eyes-on trader but I haven't heard of any that see a big enough gain to pay for it.
GPS feels a bit dated and clumsy, it can't be long before more sophisticated video analysis turns up once the cost of entry comes down. Gait analysis which gets used in the Far East more than face recognition is probably the stepping stone.
My understanding
jockeys are in "control "of the reins
that will vary from "instructions", jockey horse course etc etc
so a tug of the rein reason will vary at many different times during a race for many different reasons
I think an overall "average"speed can be found
other than that
I would like to know otherwise
jockeys are in "control "of the reins
that will vary from "instructions", jockey horse course etc etc
so a tug of the rein reason will vary at many different times during a race for many different reasons
I think an overall "average"speed can be found
other than that
I would like to know otherwise
Yeah - was my take too.
Will Duff Gordon, CEO of Total Performance Data says, “Bet Mover already had thousands of users and some great features so when Nigel (who we knew from his work to show the TPD data on Geegeez) asked if he could make our live content dance, we were delighted to make this happen.
Not sure where the thousands of users are hiding.
Will Duff Gordon, CEO of Total Performance Data says, “Bet Mover already had thousands of users and some great features so when Nigel (who we knew from his work to show the TPD data on Geegeez) asked if he could make our live content dance, we were delighted to make this happen.
Not sure where the thousands of users are hiding.
Problem TPD have imo is that it's a nice feed to have but from what I gather it's not a necessity.
Further to that traders want flexibility, they want multiple sports to trade, with the option of automation & data collection, Betmover is a one trick pony offering just horse racing, with the main selling point being TPD. At best it's a bolt on & the best place for it would of been in a piece of software that traders love to use.
Shame really because i thought the par times, section times, pace comparison was good, it just lacked the right software to go with it.
Further to that traders want flexibility, they want multiple sports to trade, with the option of automation & data collection, Betmover is a one trick pony offering just horse racing, with the main selling point being TPD. At best it's a bolt on & the best place for it would of been in a piece of software that traders love to use.
Shame really because i thought the par times, section times, pace comparison was good, it just lacked the right software to go with it.
It's not listed anywhere on the site, but I managed to work out the company behind it. Doesn't scream of thousands of customers, so I guess it was a mutually beneficial arrangement and TPD probably didn't have the in-house skill or resource.megarain wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:27 pmYeah - was my take too.
Will Duff Gordon, CEO of Total Performance Data says, “Bet Mover already had thousands of users and some great features so when Nigel (who we knew from his work to show the TPD data on Geegeez) asked if he could make our live content dance, we were delighted to make this happen.
Not sure where the thousands of users are hiding.
- wearthefoxhat
- Posts: 3221
- Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:55 am
Euler wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:56 pmIt's not listed anywhere on the site, but I managed to work out the company behind it. Doesn't scream of thousands of customers, so I guess it was a mutually beneficial arrangement and TPD probably didn't have the in-house skill or resource.megarain wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:27 pmYeah - was my take too.
Will Duff Gordon, CEO of Total Performance Data says, “Bet Mover already had thousands of users and some great features so when Nigel (who we knew from his work to show the TPD data on Geegeez) asked if he could make our live content dance, we were delighted to make this happen.
Not sure where the thousands of users are hiding.
https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history
Could of been many thousands that took up the 7 day free trial. (I was one of them)
I quickly came to the conclusion, BA's IP trader is better and has more functionality.
- The Silk Run
- Posts: 919
- Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 12:53 am
- Location: United Kingdom
TPD is owned by former Paddy Power Betfair employees !!! We discovered this on a sniff test prior to subscription.Euler wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:56 pmIt's not listed anywhere on the site, but I managed to work out the company behind it. Doesn't scream of thousands of customers, so I guess it was a mutually beneficial arrangement and TPD probably didn't have the in-house skill or resource.megarain wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:27 pmYeah - was my take too.
Will Duff Gordon, CEO of Total Performance Data says, “Bet Mover already had thousands of users and some great features so when Nigel (who we knew from his work to show the TPD data on Geegeez) asked if he could make our live content dance, we were delighted to make this happen.
Not sure where the thousands of users are hiding.
- The Silk Run
- Posts: 919
- Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 12:53 am
- Location: United Kingdom
I concur. The BA in-play trader interface is VERY GOOD. Worked well for me ...wearthefoxhat wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:59 pmEuler wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:56 pmIt's not listed anywhere on the site, but I managed to work out the company behind it. Doesn't scream of thousands of customers, so I guess it was a mutually beneficial arrangement and TPD probably didn't have the in-house skill or resource.megarain wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:27 pmYeah - was my take too.
Will Duff Gordon, CEO of Total Performance Data says, “Bet Mover already had thousands of users and some great features so when Nigel (who we knew from his work to show the TPD data on Geegeez) asked if he could make our live content dance, we were delighted to make this happen.
Not sure where the thousands of users are hiding.
Could of been many thousands that took up the 7 day free trial. (I was one of them)
I quickly came to the conclusion, BA's IP trader is better and has more functionality.
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- Posts: 443
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 1:24 pm
https://twitter.com/TPDZone/status/1455473298075176962
Re this tweet mentioning Bet Angel and Bet Mover integration, are there any other details available?
Iambic
Re this tweet mentioning Bet Angel and Bet Mover integration, are there any other details available?
Iambic