Full Time

[Kai]

The reverend's got a lot of reading to catch up on when he gets back from church.

Unless he already fled the country

[LinusP]

1) Open a business account
2) Withdraw all winnings to Paypal, never, ever to a debit card! Your bank will likely flag you immediately
3) Withdraw Paypal into your business account once per month
4) Transfer from said business account to current account on the last working day of each month (or 28th). Try to keep the amounts very similar (£2-4k ish) works very well
5) When you renew your mortgage or have any kind of credit check, simply state your employment as the name from which you pay yourself monthly, with full time employed being superior to self employed for insurance and risk assessment purposes

I've been doing this myself for many years, though I do genuinely have a small web and Google ads firm that accepts Paypal and transfers regularly into the business account from which I pay myself at the end of each month

Good luck!

CS

You're basically describing money laundering? And when you submit your HMRC tax return for your 'business', how do you expain the revenue source?

Agreed, you are asking for trouble however I do withdraw via PayPal as banks don’t seem to ask questions but betfair restrict the amount and times you can withdraw.

On a side note it’s a real shame that threads like this get full of complete shit, Peter/Dallas just delete the crap.

[Kai]

On a side note it’s a real shame that threads like this get full of complete shit

Have to reluctantly agree since technically that is a factual statement, what exactly constitutes shitposting may be debatable to some extent but many do willingly and unwillingly partake in shitposting (myself included), even in threads where that would maybe be deemed inappropriate, since it requires the least amount of effort. Even though it is consistently encouraged a bit of restraint in the future may not be a bad idea



Mods can't ever please everyone and I'm sure most people are more than capable of seriously engaging in various topics but whether the forum as a whole is really interested in that is another matter, as most new threads get the usual "use the search" reply or a link to a previous discussion or video etc even coming from mods, like this thread did as well initially, which clearly hints at forum's reluctance to go over the same old topics for the umpteenth time for the sake of newcomers, when it's far easier to get seduced by various tomfoolery, horseplay, derailing and other types of shenanigans, which is most of what friends would partake in real life as well.

I'm used to that after 10 years of browsing Reddit and I'm used to vastly different opinions but I appreciate it's not everyone's cup of tea. Needless to say, generational gaps aside, whatever directions the forum takes in the future I'm fairly confident I'll support that, whether I'll be contributing or not, as long as it doesn't include actual toxicity.

Ironically this may sound off-topic as well but I'd say it's bang on the topic of "bored fulltimers".

[Trader Pat]

I think he's referring to the continuous derailing of threads and he has a point.

I've been very good lately I don't think I've caused any derailments, I think I have a sheet of gold stars in a drawer somewhere so might give myself one

[Derek27]

Mods can't ever please everyone and I'm sure most people are more than capable of seriously engaging in various topics but whether the forum as a whole is really interested in that is another matter, as most new threads get the usual "use the search" reply or a link to a previous discussion or video etc even coming from mods, like this thread did as well initially, which clearly hints at forum's reluctance to go over the same old topics for the umpteenth time for the sake of newcomers, when it's far easier to get seduced by various tomfoolery, horseplay, derailing and other types of shenanigans, which is most of what friends would partake in real life as well.

Shitpost warning!

People can be too quick to say "use the search" and conversely waste time going over previously trodden ground. But what really makes my blood boil is looking at the Q&A for a product I'm considering purchasing and wading through dozens of "what are the dimensions?", "does the washing machine have an ON button?" and other stupid questions they could have found the answer to if they bothered reading the very brief description.

[ShaunWhite]

Maybe there should be an offshoots thread that becomes as ubiquitous as the Rants or Today's racing? Any side comments can be made in there, or contentious comments moved to there. That way you don't get into censorship but threads hopefully stay more on topic.

[Emmson]

Now its becoming de rigeur around here to pass comment on the quality of other peoples posts and call for those that don't pass muster to be deleted. Where were these people a few years ago when the Tommy Robinson appreciation thread was in full bloom?

OK then I down vote any post where manual trading is described as a "mug's game"

[Crazyskier]

Well...

It seems a lot of assumptions have been made, and wrong ones at that.

There's a gulf of difference between declaring income accurately to HMRC (something I do in full and at the higher rate too, since 2003, for those interested!), and using a BACS credit from one's business account to one's personal account for insurance and credit checks. This is the element that works for me when not having a regular PAYE income, which was, I believe the OP's query.

To clarify, at no point have I suggested or condoned tax evasion.

CS

[Kai]

To clarify, at no point have I suggested or condoned tax evasion.

CS

Good enough for me! And good to see you make bail A thousand apologies for the misunderstanding!

Now its becoming de rigeur around here to pass comment on the quality of other peoples posts and call for those that don't pass muster to be deleted.

Fair point, I imagine deleting posts would upset many, going back to the earlier point that you can't please everyone. And downvoting unpopular opinions or posts from members without a PC badge doesn't sound good on paper either.

[jimibt]

Agreed, you are asking for trouble however I do withdraw via PayPal as banks don’t seem to ask questions but betfair restrict the amount and times you can withdraw.

sorry liam - for context here. do you mean that when you withdraw via payal, there are potential questions pending from betfair (vs normal bank withdrawals)??

sorry, my mono-brain isn't in assimilation mode today . i'm not in the high roller category but i do withdraw to my nominated account and have never had issues.

[Kai]

Maybe there should be an offshoots thread that becomes as ubiquitous as the Rants or Today's racing? Any side comments can be made in there, or contentious comments moved to there. That way you don't get into censorship but threads hopefully stay more on topic.

Sounds like a lot of manual work, nobody would want that cleanup and babysitting job, least of all active traders. When Peter says he wants the forum to self-moderate he probably doesn't mean to give everyone admin powers, what could go wrong with that

Hmm, a few things come to mind while we're on this subject again...

A flat forum model where a topic has a single thread conversation has always had issues with going off-topic since the dawn of time, so it's not a new problem but the main benefit is that it looks nice and clean.

While multi threaded forums like Reddit etc where a single topic can branch out in an infinite amount of threads and directions and where users can open or close those branches at will has a lot of versatility, but honestly looks fugly and can get pretty cumbersome.

What could potentially be interesting is something in between, for every thread to somehow be split into 2 (sub)threads, ontopic discussion and offtopic discussion, not sure how possible that would be but it would clean up the threads, particularly very large ones that are full of offtopic stuff and of users quoting massive blocks of text just to post a one liner or emoji etc. Or if every thread simply had an offtopic subthread for users that want to have a side discussion of sorts that is somewhat related to the topic, that would be equally useful.

I have no issue filtering the serious from non-serious forum posts although granted I can go from dead serious to full troll and back etc, but I imagine many people find it hard to filter stuff out, and some probably can't tell the difference at all which is far from ideal.

An upvote thingy of sorts would clearly be helpful, we wouldn't have to quote text and reply with "+1" anymore which needlessly clogs up threads as well, and newbies could see much easier how many people agree or disagree with certain posts or advice or whatever. Karmawhoring could be a slight issue here, which is when people post things just for the sake of collecting likes/upvotes/karma, but could be a small tradeoff if this will entice people to post more helpful and constructive stuff.

A downvote feature would obviously be bad for numerous reasons, those with contrarian and unpopular opinions would be reluctant to share them since they can be downvoted into oblivion and lose credibility etc which is pointless since as a trader you need to think as a contrarian, and people would just misuse the feature anyway and downvote each other based on various other reasons and not based on what a post says and so on.

[Trader Pat]

When Peter says he wants the forum to self-moderate he probably doesn't mean to give everyone admin powers, what could go wrong with that

Can't think of anything...

[Kai]

That's a great example, thanks Pat

So Pat's post would then go in the offtopic section of the thread while the main thread discussion could proceed as planned and everyone is (hopefully) happy

There should be enough programmers around to make it work

[ShaunWhite]

Well...

It seems a lot of assumptions have been made, and wrong ones at that.

There's a gulf of difference between declaring income accurately to HMRC (something I do in full and at the higher rate too, since 2003, for those interested!), and using a BACS credit from one's business account to one's personal account for insurance and credit checks. This is the element that works for me when not having a regular PAYE income, which was, I believe the OP's query.

To clarify, at no point have I suggested or condoned tax evasion.

CS

You haven't condoned tax evasion but you have condoned committing fraud including a full 'how to'. I assumed you held yourself to a higher moral standard than that.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/fraud-act-2006

Fraud by false representation (Section 2)
The defendant:

• made a false representation dishonestly knowing that the representation was or might be untrue or misleading
  with intent to make a gain for himself or another, to cause loss to another or to expose another to risk of loss.

Fraud by failing to disclose information (Section 3)
The defendant:

• failed to disclose information to another person when he was under a legal duty to disclose that information dishonestly intending, by that failure, to make a gain or cause a loss.

How do you plead CS?

[alexmr2]

Well...

It seems a lot of assumptions have been made, and wrong ones at that.

There's a gulf of difference between declaring income accurately to HMRC (something I do in full and at the higher rate too, since 2003, for those interested!), and using a BACS credit from one's business account to one's personal account for insurance and credit checks. This is the element that works for me when not having a regular PAYE income, which was, I believe the OP's query.

To clarify, at no point have I suggested or condoned tax evasion.

CS

You've not condoned tax evasion but you have condoned committing fraud, unless you'd happily tell all these institutions the truth. I assumed you held yourself to a higher moral standard than that. Haven't you seen the part in your book that says 'Thou shalt not be an untrustworthy liar in order to obtain financial services' ?

I don't see a problem with withdrawing "gambling winnings" through his business Paypal and then to his bank as long as he records and declares his official business activities he should be fine. It's a good idea so banks and financial checks don't misunderstand the situation. There might be questions if they audit why his business appears to be making more money than is being declared, but he can prove that he just got lucky under the speculative gambling bracket.

Morals don't come into tax any more IMO. Tax was originally introduced to balance the wealth between the rich and poor, until the rich reformed it to have the (working and middle class) poor pay for the poor, whilst the rich use their solicitors and accountants to use every loophole they can to avoid it.

The biggest tax fraud doesn't come from benefit and self-employed street, it comes from the government themselves. Looks like they've just flushed nearly a trillion down the toilet for the hoax virus anyway. Imagine working your whole life paying £500k in tax then it all goes towards a fraction of some new app or computer system that doesn't even work and gets scrapped with no questions asked and no one held accountable