Moral Dilemas & RNG's

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Swamidee
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:31 am
Location: Warwickshire

So, I haven’t been here for many a long month. Long story. If you have the time and the inclination, here it is, for what it’s worth.
Peter is an inspiration, let me say that at outset.
Over the many years working with Bet Angel, I‘ve delved into horse racing, footie, and greyhound racing, and never really managed to maintain anything near a profit.
On top of that, I was not striking a healthy lifestyle balance and was spending way too many anxious, physically inactive hours and way too much lolly on my failing attempts.

So I Decided to invest in cryptocurrency, only to find within one week I had lost 25% of my fund.
However, I was pleased to watch the markets rally, as I was a well aware of the volatility of these markets and I was in it for the long term anyway. I have a belief in the theory and ethics behind the blockchain.
Sure enough the markets underwent their characteristic bounce back, and some, and I found myself sitting on a 30% gain or thereabouts over 12 month period.
Now I’m not talking vast sums, but I had invested a substantial and somewhat hefty 5 figures, which represented 90% of my private personal pension pot I had removed from it’s woefully dormant fund.

*HEALTH WARNING* For those of a delicate disposition, now would be the time to turn away.

How much detail to go into? Long-story-short. I fell for a scam, Talk about seeing me coming. I Fell hook, line and sinker for a remarkably convincing (to my eyes) deception and lost every last penny. I can’t put into words how that feels and knowing there is no possible way to trace the source of the fraud is, well, just plain heart-sinkingly-numbing.

Does the story end there? Well, yeah, pretty much. Major heart surgery and a total life re-evaluation ensued. Yeah retirement is off the table for the foreseeable. But Bitterness is not my thing. I actually think the scam was rather ingenious! It was my call, I wasn’t coerced. I was a prize sucker having an unguarded moment.

I have been training in a new career (at the ripe old age of 60) in hypnosis and hypnotherapy. It’s fun rewarding and brings much help and addresses addicition, phobias and just general well-being, and it feels a nice way to be. (no I’m not touting for business)

Financially, still in a sticky position for sure, but with a different perspective. But here is the crux of my missive really. Some 5 years back (before all this drama came about) I had an idea for a utility that would work with random number generator games. And so I hired a programmer to put my concept into a fully functional format on excel.

Now I want to make this clear. It is a utility tool and ONLY that, in the same way Bet Angel will not make you a winner, like wise my Roulette Index Pro (R.I.P yeah, a name change may be in order ) is an analytical tool. But not in a straight forwards number counting, ‘hot, cold, sleeping numbers’ kind of way. There is a simple but, as yet (5 years and still looking)
Original concept. Its not rocket science, its utterly unremarkable in its own way. But it is rather useful, especially to matched bettors working through qualifying restrictions.

However, having been through what I have been through, I wouldn’t want to encourage gambling. And yet here is a resource that if I could get it to market before it was wholesale copied, could potentially tap into a vast sector of on-line users and who knows turn my fortunes around?

I guess only I can make that decision. I cannot share the product for fear of losing the intellectual rights such as they are etc, and the moral implications are also weighing. Ahh the game of life.

Bet Angel is a remarkable tool indeed, and made many punters into profitable traders, no doubt. But what of those who failed? How to quantify the implications of how a product can affect a life adversely. Is it ethically ok to slap a caveat on saying ‘buyer beware!’ or ‘Gamble aware?’

I find myself in just this position, and I simply can’t seem to square the circle! Or maybe I can, but just don’t wish to? My wealth over someone elses misery, maybe its that simple?

I wish you all well.
D
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ANGELS15
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Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:57 am

I'm sorry to hear about your financial misfortunes and health issues. I hope you can recover your health and rebuild your financial future.

When I think of randomly generated number games I think of things like the National Lottery, but how on earth do you analyse something that's random?
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ANGELS15
Posts: 844
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:57 am

One other thing I know you beleive it's not possible to trace the lost money but have you considered reporting it to the Police 'Actionfraud'. The Police have specialist units to investigate fraud and if I'm not mistaken even overseas liason with other forces. Fraudsters do get caught from time to time and if other people have reported similar the investigators may be able to find some kind of pattern. it is rare but occasionally when fraudsters are caught the investigators can arrange for their accounts to be frozen and seized. Again extremely rare but on odd occasions the victims manage to get something back. Don't underestimate this possibility as with the kind of sums you're hinting at these are very serious crimes indeed and not to be overlooked by enforcement agencies.
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Swamidee
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:31 am
Location: Warwickshire

ANGELS15 wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:15 pm
One other thing I know you beleive it's not possible to trace the lost money but have you considered reporting it to the Police 'Actionfraud'. The Police have specialist units to investigate fraud and if I'm not mistaken even overseas liason with other forces. Fraudsters do get caught from time to time and if other people have reported similar the investigators may be able to find some kind of pattern. it is rare but occasionally when fraudsters are caught the investigators can arrange for their accounts to be frozen and seized. Again extremely rare but on odd occasions the victims manage to get something back. Don't underestimate this possibility as with the kind of sums you're hinting at these are very serious crimes indeed and not to be overlooked by enforcement agencies.
Yeah, on the evening of the incident I was on line to Actionfraud the moment the penny dropped (no pun intended)
I was given a case number and assurances of calls back. They didn't happen. The suggestion was, or felt like, I was one of a multitude, though not too many had matched my level of stupidity or naivety.
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Swamidee
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:31 am
Location: Warwickshire

ANGELS15 wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:04 pm

When I think of randomly generated number games I think of things like the National Lottery, but how on earth do you analyse something that's random?
The idea arose purely because I indeed saw it more as a lottery draw than a casino game. The graphic are misleading, in the sense that there is no roulette game. The is a programme running that generates numbers. An algorithm if you will. There is no bouncing ball or slots for it to fall into, no croupier spin etc.
If you take away those parameters, then the picture is a lot simpler.

I am currently thinking of maybe doing a blog/ vlog of live play to generate interest to show realtime play and results. I have seen so many so called 'systems' that simply cannot and do not work. A rigid number selector can never work.
My tool is just that, a utility, it is not a system, but one can incorporate a style of play to it that is unique to the player.
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Swamidee
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:31 am
Location: Warwickshire

I kinda guessed this wouldn't be too popular a thread, however... does anyone know of a way to protect a digital product such as an excel-based utility programme?
Thanks
D
foxwood
Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:54 pm

Swamidee wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:20 pm
I kinda guessed this wouldn't be too popular a thread, however... does anyone know of a way to protect a digital product such as an excel-based utility programme?
Thanks
D
You could distribute a package encrypted with a unique key for each user but that's quite laborious to do each time.

However, once that is unpacked and the Excel file is available all bets are off - Excel security is effectively non-existent - password crackers are numerous (and they work), macros can be disabled at start - it's all pretty basic stuff. Wouldn't even bother to try protecting an Excel workbook.

An alternative you could consider is taking the formulae etc and embodying all that input and calc in a robust standalone program that produces the same results as your Excel sheet does. That standalone program can then be protected in very many different ways most of which are controlled by some sort of licence / product key.
FattyGoLucky
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Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2022 5:14 pm

What was the scam you fell for?
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Swamidee
Posts: 29
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Location: Warwickshire

Swamidee wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:20 pm
An alternative you could consider is taking the formulae etc and embodying all that input and calc in a robust standalone program that produces the same results as your Excel sheet does. That standalone program can then be protected in very many different ways most of which are controlled by some sort of licence / product key.
Thank you for that, it sounds rather complicated to this less-than-proficient brain, but maybe I can get contract it out, but again, the idea is then let loose, so to speak. Maybe just hit the market as is and hope for the best?
Cheers
D
eightbo
Posts: 2154
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 8:19 pm
Location: Malta / Australia

Hi mate. Have had some similar thoughts along my journey.

Didn't plan on writing so much but, well, here we are.
...Sharing some of my thoughts as well giving some unprompted life advice, give or take (feel free to pass on it):
I think ultimately humans have the right choose to live how they want (and spend their money how they want) but awareness of the neurological impacts and risks of gambling (and other shit for that matter e.g. alcohol dependancy) are really not well-known enough.

As I myself have many times gone into the day with a plan of risking X amount and finishing down way past that, even though I know I shouldn't.
At least I know it's a risk of the game. If I think about it, it concerns me greatly that people have easy access to come in, bet some £££ and walk away from the screen having to tell their loved ones they're not sure what happened, but they completely fucked it.
Ultimately it's the customer's responsibility to research their endeavour but again, even if they have a plan, if they're not aware / don't realise they could lose control mid-session, then that's a big potential issue.

I chalk it up to an awareness problem.

Notice I said "If I think about it". Now of course one post doesn't tell me your inner workings but the impression I get is that you have a tendancy to over-think things, probably no older than your 20s. These (and) other issues will certaintly in our lifetime always exist, the issue imo is getting so caught up in it all. Someone close to me is endlessly concerned about co2 emissions, but I know if they weren't concerned about that, they'd be concerned about something else. It's an underlying perspective for them. A nihilistic or similar attitude is attractive mostly because it's an easy way out, however a major downside is limiting your own life experience significantly. Or convincing ourselves we are on the moral path, makes us feel good, but it's all just ego stuff when you get down to it. The root issue imo is needing to feel that way.

You don't have to say but if you'd agree that you're an overthinker, I would suggest pondering what your life could look like in the absolute best case if you dialed that switch down a bit, and whether or not you'd enjoy that way of living, if so, work toward it -- a bit of inward work should become a staple til you feel chill with your current situation, and you can explore other shit too if you're male such as increasing testosterone, nofap, or more generally; cleaning up your diet, working towards a higher dopamine baseline level, regular exercise, all the usual shit basically.


Some overthinkers feel they really can't dial the switch down despite what they try e.g. Musk, if that's you after some prolonged effort that's you then I'd suggest transmuting the energy into action: ...What is the opportunity cost of spending your time philosophising about everything? What deliverables are being produced as a result? How else could I use this time? What deliverables might I be able to produce if I shift my time expenditure from 60% thinking 40% action to 80% action 20% thinking? How would creating those things, and achieving the associated goals make you feel?

...Or just carry on as you are, if you choose you want to be 90% thinker then go for it, arguably one of the greatest pities in life is that people don't stop and think about how they live their life once in a while, and end up with a boat-load of regrets with no time left to adjust. Don't get too caught up on what's right or wrong and have your mood/sanity be subsequently dependant on that, hone your intuition, and develop your skill in making decisions based on that without needing the inputs of others. Practice letting go of all the random unprompted thoughts which pop up in your head, compare what that's like to assigning a load of energy to those thoughts on a regular basis, and evaluate on your own which way of living you prefer.

Saw a couple of appropriate videos:
1. Quicky reality check https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tm6Z1y3h94
2. Evolution from start of earth til ~now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StqZI9pMq0U


They both put things into perspective but damnnnnnnnnn, that 2nd link (documentary) is insanely legendary.
I'm getting hype just thinking about it how boss that video was.

All the best.
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Swamidee
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:31 am
Location: Warwickshire

Thanks for that great reply, much appreciated...

For sure... How much will ANYTHING matter in 5... 10... 50.. 100... 1000... 10,000 , 1,000000 years :shock:

We are phantoms blown on the winds of time.

But oh... how that next trade matters!!! :lol:

Its all a bit of a humungous miracle that we even exist really

have PM'd you.
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Swamidee
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:31 am
Location: Warwickshire

RNG's not so random at times.. the trick is to discover even more of these... ;)
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