Asking for help

[NoNameLurker]

Hi,

This is a bit of a plea post but by no means am I asking anyone to give me there edge. I want to learn to trade automatically.

I mainly focus on automation as my schedule is never the same so for me it's the best choice.
I've been using Bet Angel now for nearly 2 years, although was just a no name lurker!

I have a couple of base ideas. The main one I am currently focusing on is greyhounds, I can see something happening on most races. I thought the values needed, triggers etc seemed pretty obvious but, nope, absolutely not.

I've done what it seems most have and bounced around from sport to sport, losing bank after bank. So this time I'm trying to stick with one idea!

Could anyone point out common indicators of price move? I've been looking at vwap, volume% and change, selection volume, the odds themselves, money waiting at 10 ticks above and below, comparing them against each other. Possibly more but that's from the top of my head, obviously all at different time intervals aswell.
If anyone wants to be extra nice and allow me to dm them my current theory for greyhounds, maybe so they can offer comments like have you considered this?

Or any advice or tips from anyone? About either greyhounds or price movement indicators.

I genuinely hate putting this post up, but I don't want to give up after nearly 2 years trying but I've already plowed so much into it!

Any help would be greatly appreciated, please.

[wearthefoxhat]

Have a look at this thread, assuming you haven't already.

viewforum.php?f=11



The market only really gets going 2 minutes before the off. Trying to find a selection that others will back, or others will lay is do-able, you just need to take a little time understanding how the racing manager has put the race together. What you see and what the R.M sees, can be the difference.

[Anbell]

Have a look at this thread, assuming you haven't already.

viewforum.php?f=11



The market only really gets going 2 minutes before the off. Trying to find a selection that others will back, or others will lay is do-able, you just need to take a little time understanding how the racing manager has put the race together. What you see and what the R.M sees, can be the difference.

This is fascinating! Who / what is the racing manager and what / how do they influence the market?
(I obviously know nothing about uk greyhounds!)

[wearthefoxhat]

Have a look at this thread, assuming you haven't already.

viewforum.php?f=11



The market only really gets going 2 minutes before the off. Trying to find a selection that others will back, or others will lay is do-able, you just need to take a little time understanding how the racing manager has put the race together. What you see and what the R.M sees, can be the difference.

This is fascinating! Who / what is the racing manager and what / how do they influence the market?
(I obviously know nothing about uk greyhounds!)

At the greyhound tracks a racing manager is essentially the private handicapper that puts a race card on for each meeting. They have to try and create a race that gives each runner a fair chance of a clear run and are fairly equally matched. Easier said than done.

The trials they run help the RM seed each runner, railer, middle, wide runner. They then create a database of runners that can run at the track. The RM is the human element in the process, so that's where we can pit our wits against them and take a view. If there's a rick in the race, others may spot it too and act accordingly. Sometimes you can see one given a chance, maybe an older runner that has served the track well.

Their role is not easy because they have to put on a card that has normal A Grade races, then sprints. staying races, sometime handicap races and even hurdle races.

[NoNameLurker]

Have a look at this thread, assuming you haven't already.

viewforum.php?f=11



The market only really gets going 2 minutes before the off. Trying to find a selection that others will back, or others will lay is do-able, you just need to take a little time understanding how the racing manager has put the race together. What you see and what the R.M sees, can be the difference.

Thank you, I have looked at a lot but maybe I missed something so I'll take another look.

I think my main problem is my "thing" is so close to the off I need to work out what values cause the fastest move, as I need to be in and out as fast as possible. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't, I just can't seem to work out what's different in when it does and doesn't. It just feels like I'm missing a piece of the puzzle.

[wearthefoxhat]

Have a look at this thread, assuming you haven't already.

viewforum.php?f=11



The market only really gets going 2 minutes before the off. Trying to find a selection that others will back, or others will lay is do-able, you just need to take a little time understanding how the racing manager has put the race together. What you see and what the R.M sees, can be the difference.

Thank you, I have looked at a lot but maybe I missed something so I'll take another look.

I think my main problem is my "thing" is so close to the off I need to work out what values cause the fastest move, as I need to be in and out as fast as possible. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't, I just can't seem to work out what's different in when it does and doesn't. It just feels like I'm missing a piece of the puzzle.

Maybe take a closer look at:

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=13403

It's the catch the late move reversal bot Dallas put up in the shared files section about 5 years ago. It's not the end product, but it sounds as though it might be something on the lines of what you might need. Also some greyhound races go off earlier than advertised, not that many, just a few seconds, which in automation can be a lifetime!

[napshnap]

It reminds me something...

Yeah, I remembered! Brace yourself guys, the Goat sequel is coming !

But seriously, check this thread, read it very carefully, make notes, see how progress unfolds and try to repeat it with a goat stubbornness!

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21616

[NoNameLurker]

Have a look at this thread, assuming you haven't already.

viewforum.php?f=11



The market only really gets going 2 minutes before the off. Trying to find a selection that others will back, or others will lay is do-able, you just need to take a little time understanding how the racing manager has put the race together. What you see and what the R.M sees, can be the difference.

Thank you, I have looked at a lot but maybe I missed something so I'll take another look.

I think my main problem is my "thing" is so close to the off I need to work out what values cause the fastest move, as I need to be in and out as fast as possible. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't, I just can't seem to work out what's different in when it does and doesn't. It just feels like I'm missing a piece of the puzzle.

Maybe take a closer look at:

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=13403

It's the catch the late move reversal bot Dallas put up in the shared files section about 5 years ago. It's not the end product, but it sounds as though it might be something on the lines of what you might need. Also some greyhound races go off earlier than advertised, not that many, just a few seconds, which in automation can be a lifetime!

This looks interesting, thank you

[NoNameLurker]

It reminds me something...

Yeah, I remembered! Brace yourself guys, the Goat sequel is coming !

But seriously, check this thread, read it very carefully, make notes, see how progress unfolds and try to repeat it with a goat stubbornness!

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21616

I've actually started on that one, about half way through.
Oh I'm determined. I may have to go into practice mode for a while, so my bank doesn't run out before my determination lol

[wearthefoxhat]

Earlier on this evening,, my view on the Hove 5.08 was that T2 had a 2 length advantage over its nearest rival. Also 5 lengths over the T5. T2 only won by 3/4l, but beat the T5 by 8 lengths. The market also spotted the RM's rick and piled into @ 11/10f. They also let the T5 go off at 12/1 (22.00) on betfair, might as well have been 100.00.

Hove 5.08.png

Out of all the greyhounds races today (144) there were only 2 that I needed to focus on.

[ShaunWhite]

It reminds me something...

Yeah, I remembered! Brace yourself guys, the Goat sequel is coming !

But seriously, check this thread, read it very carefully, make notes, see how progress unfolds and try to repeat it with a goat stubbornness!

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21616

I'm not sure how relevent it is naps, you can't do any of it with BA.

"stubbornness' the only stubbornness was resisting doing what other people suggested for so long. Once the stubbornness turned into desperation and then to a willingness to accept some advice (ie the std route) then there was some improvement. There were countless emails to goat with me saying how bloody frustrating it was teaching him when he won't take it on board.

But to the OP : data data data. Dog strategies only prove their worth after thousands of bets so you'll need to do more than wing it. And don't get drawn onto doing just a few dozen dogs a day, there's over 700 you can aim at which is the benefit of automaton.

[Anbell]

Have a look at this thread, assuming you haven't already.

viewforum.php?f=11



The market only really gets going 2 minutes before the off. Trying to find a selection that others will back, or others will lay is do-able, you just need to take a little time understanding how the racing manager has put the race together. What you see and what the R.M sees, can be the difference.

This is fascinating! Who / what is the racing manager and what / how do they influence the market?
(I obviously know nothing about uk greyhounds!)

At the greyhound tracks a racing manager is essentially the private handicapper that puts a race card on for each meeting. They have to try and create a race that gives each runner a fair chance of a clear run and are fairly equally matched. Easier said than done.

The trials they run help the RM seed each runner, railer, middle, wide runner. They then create a database of runners that can run at the track. The RM is the human element in the process, so that's where we can pit our wits against them and take a view. If there's a rick in the race, others may spot it too and act accordingly. Sometimes you can see one given a chance, maybe an older runner that has served the track well.

Their role is not easy because they have to put on a card that has normal A Grade races, then sprints. staying races, sometime handicap races and even hurdle races.

Thanks very much! I dont think that exists in AU? I'm pretty sure the trap draw is random.

[goat68]

It reminds me something...

Yeah, I remembered! Brace yourself guys, the Goat sequel is coming !

But seriously, check this thread, read it very carefully, make notes, see how progress unfolds and try to repeat it with a goat stubbornness!

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21616

I'm not sure how relevent it is naps, you can't do any of it with BA.

"stubbornness' the only stubbornness was resisting doing what other people suggested for so long. Once the stubbornness turned into desperation and then to a willingness to accept some advice (ie the std route) then there was some improvement. There were countless emails to goat with me saying how bloody frustrating it was teaching him when he won't take it on board.

But to the OP : data data data. Dog strategies only prove their worth after thousands of bets so you'll need to do more than wing it. And don't get drawn onto doing just a few dozen dogs a day, there's over 700 you can aim at which is the benefit of automaton.

Hmm Shaun, not sure i'd quite agree with all you say there... except for the data data bit.

I would say although not easy, the end result could be done with BA Guardian, it's the extra "tooling" around it you need to develop to get that far.

Sometimes a teacher needs "patience" ! What can be viewed as stubbornness, can be simply miss understanding by the student, my biggest breakthrough was when I realised I was looking at one aspect of the market the wrong way round..... When you're only ever talking to people virtually via msgs/email, you typically get the wrong end of the stick.

One positive of my open persistence, is you develop "connections"...

[goat68]

Hi,

This is a bit of a plea post but by no means am I asking anyone to give me there edge. I want to learn to trade automatically.

I mainly focus on automation as my schedule is never the same so for me it's the best choice.
I've been using Bet Angel now for nearly 2 years, although was just a no name lurker!

I have a couple of base ideas. The main one I am currently focusing on is greyhounds, I can see something happening on most races. I thought the values needed, triggers etc seemed pretty obvious but, nope, absolutely not.

I've done what it seems most have and bounced around from sport to sport, losing bank after bank. So this time I'm trying to stick with one idea!

Could anyone point out common indicators of price move? I've been looking at vwap, volume% and change, selection volume, the odds themselves, money waiting at 10 ticks above and below, comparing them against each other. Possibly more but that's from the top of my head, obviously all at different time intervals aswell.
If anyone wants to be extra nice and allow me to dm them my current theory for greyhounds, maybe so they can offer comments like have you considered this?

Or any advice or tips from anyone? About either greyhounds or price movement indicators.

I genuinely hate putting this post up, but I don't want to give up after nearly 2 years trying but I've already plowed so much into it!

Any help would be greatly appreciated, please.

Although, i'm very far from being an expert...!, i'll msg you later

[SteadySlobbin]

Shaun took Goat under his wing and turned him from a complete novice into a fully competent profitable automated trader, in under a year.

Whilst the Goats persistence, stubbornness, hard work and determination to succeed should rightly be admired, I think the majority of the credit should go to Shaun.