Punter claims he was unfairly Banned by Betfair for using ‘stream’

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lotora
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ShaunWhite
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It's one side of an argument so unwise to comment and there's always more details that aren't known but ........ It gives the impression that Aus in-running betting is permissible (without an overseas host)? Can anyone clarify the situation around that?
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Dallas
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:22 pm
It's one side of an argument so unwise to comment and there's always more details that aren't known but ........ It gives the impression that Aus in-running betting is permissible (without an overseas host)? Can anyone clarify the situation around that?
As far as I'm aware Horse racing is one a small handful of sport Aus users are able to bet on in-play, its the other main sports like cricket, tennis and football are not allowed
SlippingJimmy
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Horse racing is the only sport in Australia where it is legal to bet in-play over the internet. Basically it was an oversight when the legislation was drafted and it was never amended. All other sports are banned and in-play bets must be placed over the phone.

There is most definitely more to this story. These guys are clearly getting their feeds off the Optus D2 satellite, heaps of in-players do. However they keep saying "free-to-air" (complete with quotation marks) but the vast majority of feeds are not FTA and are encrypted, albeit the encryption is not all that difficult to crack. Seems a bit disingenuous to keep parroting that the feeds are FTA when they are most definitely not in most cases.

Betfair don't care what feeds you access or strategies you use to get an advantage IP. My suspicion is that the owner of the broadcasted feeds has bought into a zoom syndicate to grab the info of as many people using the feed as they can and have then tipped off BF that they are using an unauthorised feed. As I said normally BF don't care, but given that the same company is responsible for providing BF with their AU feeds, it was obviously in their best interest to play nice. They even say in their statement that they have no rules in relation to how punters obtain their vision. This guy is definitely barking up the wrong tree.

Could also be that this guy was selling the feed and the owner of the vision took particular offence to them profiting from their service.

Claiming that BF are negligent and he has been defamed, this guy clearly doesn't have much of a clue about the law either.

Sucks for the guy but going crying to the media with demonstrably false statements just makes you look like a bit of a clown.
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ShaunWhite
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Dallas wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:42 pm
As far as I'm aware...
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jimibt
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SlippingJimmy wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:30 pm
Horse racing is the only sport in Australia where it is legal to bet in-play over the internet. Basically it was an oversight when the legislation was drafted and it was never amended. All other sports are banned and in-play bets must be placed over the phone.

There is most definitely more to this story. These guys are clearly getting their feeds off the Optus D2 satellite, heaps of in-players do. However they keep saying "free-to-air" (complete with quotation marks) but the vast majority of feeds are not FTA and are encrypted, albeit the encryption is not all that difficult to crack. Seems a bit disingenuous to keep parroting that the feeds are FTA when they are most definitely not in most cases.

Betfair don't care what feeds you access or strategies you use to get an advantage IP. My suspicion is that the owner of the broadcasted feeds has bought into a zoom syndicate to grab the info of as many people using the feed as they can and have then tipped off BF that they are using an unauthorised feed. As I said normally BF don't care, but given that the same company is responsible for providing BF with their AU feeds, it was obviously in their best interest to play nice. They even say in their statement that they have no rules in relation to how punters obtain their vision. This guy is definitely barking up the wrong tree.

Could also be that this guy was selling the feed and the owner of the vision took particular offence to them profiting from their service.

Claiming that BF are negligent and he has been defamed, this guy clearly doesn't have much of a clue about the law either.

Sucks for the guy but going crying to the media with demonstrably false statements just makes you look like a bit of a clown.
i'm with you on this one - sounds like a very plausible scenario.
bundoorabloke
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SlippingJimmy wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 2:30 pm

As I said normally BF don't care, but given that the same company is responsible for providing BF with their AU feeds, it was obviously in their best interest to play nice.
Hi Jimmy, I'll start my reply by acknowledging that I don't have any expertise in the area of racing tv broadcasting, other than reading through the other key Australian racing thread on this topic:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20879&start=210

That thread gives me the impression Betfair receive their feed from Sky via IPTV (this is where I don't necessarily understand the relationship between Optus D2 & Sky Channel - unless of course it's bleedingly obvious and that's the source!).

So my uneducated q is why Betfair would care about anyone encrypting the Optus feed (which is only for a few meetings)? I'm a bit confused when you say 'the same company is providing the pix' that's all. Forgive my ignorance.
SlippingJimmy
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So basically Sky Racing is owned by Tabcorp (who own the eastern state TAB's, amongst other things). Optus has no ownership of the feeds, they just own the satellite that the feeds are distributed on. Sky/Tabcorp are the owners of the intellectual property.

Tabcorp refused to sell Betfair a fast feed for many years, up until about this time 2 years ago when they finally relented. Before that they relied on Foxtel like the rest of us schlubs.

So if or when Tabcorp find out that someone is using unauthorised access of one of their feeds and is using that vision to place bets with a competitor, you can imagine they aren't going to be very happy about it. I can imagine a conversation something like "Betfair? Barry from Tabcorp here. We've discovered that Dave Smith is decoding our encryption and using the stolen IP to place bets on your platform. We trust that you'll take the appropriate action and will take this into consideration when deciding on whether or not to renew your fast feed contract. Cheers!"

Betfair do not want to rub Tabcorp the wrong way for many reasons, so you can be sure they will close down any accounts that threaten that relationship without a second thought.
bundoorabloke
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Thanks Jimmy - that makes a lot more sense to me now, appreciated!

It sounds like pre the Betfair/Sky deal, obtaining that satellite feed wasn't such a big deal but can see how it would be now.
I'd say that zoom group has been shut down - the person mentioned in the article has shut down his twitter & I can see another account has gone the same way 😬

Like you I'm staggered he'd go public with it. From reading other cases involving Betfair UK and banned clients there's zero benefit in that approach.

I've been an in-player for awhile & I'm down to one question which the other thread has tried to answer. In July 2020 Betfair received the Sky feed. From that day it's been so hard as has been well documented. Who knows who has access to that feed. But looking to the future, hopefully we'll all have the fast feed! It might be chaotic and beautiful. Or completely dead because no-one has a material advantage :)
Lutruwita
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SlippingJimmy wrote:
Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:33 pm
So basically Sky Racing is owned by Tabcorp (who own the eastern state TAB's, amongst other things). Optus has no ownership of the feeds, they just own the satellite that the feeds are distributed on. Sky/Tabcorp are the owners of the intellectual property.

Tabcorp refused to sell Betfair a fast feed for many years, up until about this time 2 years ago when they finally relented. Before that they relied on Foxtel like the rest of us schlubs.

So if or when Tabcorp find out that someone is using unauthorised access of one of their feeds and is using that vision to place bets with a competitor, you can imagine they aren't going to be very happy about it. I can imagine a conversation something like "Betfair? Barry from Tabcorp here. We've discovered that Dave Smith is decoding our encryption and using the stolen IP to place bets on your platform. We trust that you'll take the appropriate action and will take this into consideration when deciding on whether or not to renew your fast feed contract. Cheers!"

Betfair do not want to rub Tabcorp the wrong way for many reasons, so you can be sure they will close down any accounts that threaten that relationship without a second thought.
I think that this is a pretty reasonable take.
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