Trading capital allowance etc

[ShaunWhite]

You get to sit on your balcony in Spain......
How many more perks do you want?!

I've put thousands of hours and thousands of pounds into this venture, didn't have one day off in three years. So I'm allowed a little treat and the incentive to try make it a lifestyle rather than a fairly normal holiday. I still sit at a screen for hours just like you do, just not when the racing calendar tells me to and make very little really

[ShaunWhite]

For some trading styles of non-recreational accounts this makes lots of sense.

Picture an account that creates offers in every major football market, it's easily plausible for them to have, say, 5000 unmatched positions at any one time each with perhaps, £100 liability. That's £500,000 exposure, even though maybe only single digit percent of these positions ever get matched and even then by law of averages the eventual combined movement in P&L might never more than a few hundred £ a day.

+1

3pm on a Saturday is impossible to fully take part in unless you can afford to have at least 50 or 60k min to leave in your account. Creating a way for people to do that would only be a good thing.

[Archery1969]

To me this all stinks.

In the UK Betfair is just shafting certain individual s and offering nothing. In Australia they offering ratings systems for free. Not saying they good or bad but that’s not the point. It cuts out the leg work for us mortals.

It has to be a level playing field. I can bot on BF but not allowed to on poker rooms including the BF one. Even though there are ways around it.

You should be allowed to be fully automated on everything or nothing at all. No half measures.

I going to write to the select committee and gambling commission. Plus I have some journalist friends who will take up the issue.

Considering the Labour Party will probably form the next government I suspect allot will change, including tax liabilities. The argument that HMRC will have to offload losses is absolute rubbish. If you make a loss over a financial period then no tax to pay but if you one of the so called 5% that romps it in then you get stuffed as a higher rate tax payer.

Seems totally fair to me and not extra admin as covered by self assessment existing rules anyway.

As far as I am concerned BF can go to the wall and I won’t lose any sleep over it.

Chow.

[RoyJay]

I've put thousands of hours and thousands of pounds into this venture, didn't have one day off in three years.

Im sure you have, Shaun. You’ve made it perfectly clear how hard you have worked and how vital you are to the betting eco system.

I don’t really see the above as a problem, still don’t fully understand it to be honest. And whilst I respect that some customers, like Shaun, are clearly a lot more valuable than others, it does leave a bit of a sour taste when some customers enjoy the benefit of direct lines to betfair and all these other perks, whilst “normal” users get shafted in various ways on a daily basis.

And don’t kid yourself into thinking you are offering anything to the punter, by helping keeping margins down etc. if you are winning, you are taking money out. You may well have “put thousands of pounds in”, though that is only so you can take thousands more out.

Though at least you have solved the grey area issue of recreational vs non recreational user. You can now define yourself as a fully fledged business user, and pay that tax that you crave. Think of how high a horse you could sit on if you paid tax on your winnings too!!

[napshnap]

And there's got be some perks for paying thousands in fees every month which funds the low commission rates for "normal" users.

You get to sit on your balcony in Spain smoking reefer ogling senoritas, whilst your robots take money off “normal” non price sensitive users, who get to sit inside for hours, staring at the screen clicking the buttons like a suspend monkey, which funds your lavish lifestyle.

How many more perks do you want?!

Oh Oh, we got a revolution comin, Shaun. I hear them screaming... "All the power to the proletariat!! Down with the bourgeoisie and bot exploatators!!!"


Imagine this Shaun in a white south-style hat who takes another everyday ride on his expensive horse, observing his plantations where bots work hard all day without sleep and rest under the digital sun. He approaches one of his bots. The bot named doggiebotboobass_777 raises his mutilated digital hands towards its master saying: "Master, can you optimize my code not to place, replace and cancel bets 10 000 times per hour? It will ease my hard work and will let this beautiful bf-land thrive without crashes and freezes". But Shaun only responds with a scornful smirk on his noble face, he knows that doggiebotboobass_777 will pay for his insolence by raising his limit up to 20 000 transactions per hour... (dramatic music)

[RoyJay]

Oh Oh, we got a revolution comin, Shaun. I hear them screaming... "All the power to the proletariat!! Down with the bourgeoisie and bot exploatators!!!"

I’m just moaning, not trying to start a revolution! I recognise the importance of bots, and admire anybody who creates a successful one.

It’s not just betfair either, it seems to be every betting company. Different rules, for different people.

They had a good chance to finally level up the playing field with the gambling review, though they have decided instead to give more power to the wrong people who have been busy making a load of nonsensical rules that just don’t work. Making it even harder for the “normal punter”, and ensuring harm continues for those at risk.

[napshnap]

Oh Oh, we got a revolution comin, Shaun. I hear them screaming... "All the power to the proletariat!! Down with the bourgeoisie and bot exploatators!!!"

I’m just moaning, not trying to start a revolution! I recognise the importance of bots, and admire anybody who creates a successful one.
...

Oh, alrighty then, I was afraid that we got another Lenin in development.

"Different rules, for different people."

"... with different contributions (weight)." You know, I have an idea - if classical democracy doesn't work (cause even complete easily-manipulatable morons have equal "weight" with you), then maybe (as I call it) "volume weighted democracy" (meritocracy, I guess) will.

upd. I think I understand what you say, I just don't think that privileges for some players is a cause of problems for others in this case. It's some unhealthy (and absolutely selfish) politicians populist interest that is the problem.

[RoyJay]

upd. I think I understand what you say, I just don't think that privileges for some players is a cause of problems for others in this case. It's some unhealthy (and absolutely selfish) politicians populist interest that is the problem.

Yes, sorry, I have rather confused the issues! I don’t in any way think that other players receiving (perceived!) privileges cause any problems to others. That’s just me being pedantic and moaning!

The harm i talk of is mainly being caused in online casinos and slots where they take advantage of people with compulsive and addictive personality problems.


So, I am just talking as somebody who perceives themselves as being trapped in the middle. As above me there are all the betting operators and well organised syndicates all seemingly carrying on with business as usual. Trying to win off these people is hard enough.

Then below me, there are anti gambling crusaders and professional campaigners, who are making it increasingly difficult for me to even bet, all in the name of saving a group of people who they are actually now going to inflict even more harm on.

The ones below me concern me a lot more than those above at present, as their lack of understanding of the problem is dangerous. Though it would also be nice to have a completely level betting field, where everybody bets on the same terms, same rebates, same bet delays, same in running picture delays etc.

[ShaunWhite]

There isn't a profession out there that's a level playing field; knowledge, contacts, capital, effort blah blah blah and its all a bit Freedom For Tooting to think otherwise.

[RoyJay]

Yes, you’re probably right.

I shall take my beret hat and che guevara t shirt off, accept that both life and betting can be unfair, and just get on with it.

[ShaunWhite]

I'm fully on board with the level playing field, or else the model doesn't work long term.

So how many of us are you taking to your special 1-on-1 meetings with Betfair management? And it's not that long since you were complaining that Betfair didn't treat you as well as they used to.

Being a software vendor obviously changes the relationship but shouldn't that be seperate from any conversions about your personal gambling, which I'm sure gets mentioned rather than avoided as a point of principal?

[ShaunWhite]

Yes, you’re probably right.

I shall take my beret hat and che guevara t shirt off, accept that both life and betting can be unfair, and just get on with it.

Sadly so brother Roy. All men are equal it's just that some are more equal than others.

This outbreak of radical 'level playing field' socialism has been interesting in the world of hard-core capitalists though. But mention a level playing field at the HMRC and its a very different story