Gambling Review White Paper update

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jamesedwards
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megarain wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 6:06 am
Yeah, thx James.

It’s interesting Experian think it will take time - but hopefully something can be done in the interim to relax controls which have clearly gone too far.
It was specifically the 'single customer view' piece that he expected to take time. Given GDPR issues that doesn't surprise me. You're talking about forcing an Operator to share the details of a Customer's deposits, withdrawals and losses across multiple separate organisations, which is one of the things GDPR was brought in to stop.
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jamesedwards
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Euler wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:21 am
Kai wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:18 am
jamesedwards wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:40 pm
Below is a summary of what I learnt
Good stuff James

Might also be worth doing a BA video on it
If James is happy for me to do that and credit him, I'd happily produce one.
Feel free. No credit required, and of course it's all just hearsay until the Government White Paper finally appears. And then things might have changed.

I'm certainly using this opportunity to get my accounts and financial behaviour in order prior to it's release to minimise any future risk.
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jamesedwards
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 11:26 am
Classic govt. Subcontract the thinking to Experian, so they embed themselves as deeply as possible to maximise the fees. Tories polling as the 3rd party so hopefully they'll be history soon anyway.
I don't think it will necessarily be one single Data Provider doing all the checks and affordability scoring across the whole industry. I got the impression each Operator will be working with a Data Provider partner of their choice, but I didn't ask that question specifically so you may be right.

Either way, presumably Experian will see this as a big opportunity so hopefully they should have as clear an understanding as anyone on how it is likely to work.
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ShaunWhite
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Thx. We though providing a couple of docs was bad enough, now they want to dig around in your entire personal credit file.... And withdrawing a fixed amount on a fixed day is missing what variable income self employment is all about, and sets the definition of an income, with tax implications.

Open banking to make what you do with withdrawals "visible" is verging on big brother.

Bad sponsorship
Ban advertising
Limit gambling operations to 12hrs a day.

Those will reduce problem gambling, not checking I'm making wise spending choice

Credit score is tricky, I haven't had any cards or credit for over 15yrs and with no income you can't have a credit card anyway?!
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jamesedwards
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:29 pm
...and withdrawing a fixed amount on a fixed day is missing what variable income self employment is all about, and sets the definition of an income, with tax implications.
He didn't specifically say fixed amount on fixed day, but 'consistent income' is likely to improve an affordability score, so I took fixed amount on a fixed day as the optimum.

ShaunWhite wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:29 pm
Credit score is tricky, I haven't had any cards or credit for over 15yrs and with no income you can't have a credit card anyway?!
My impression was that the credit file element was for the affordability score rather than how well you manage credit. It makes sense that debt would be considered when calculating affordability?

From my perspective I'm much happier with an affordability-based approach rather than the current insistence on payslips, which of course I can't provide. I would be more concerned if I had lots of debt and a less-consistent profitability model.
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Naffman
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Gambling Companies to pay levy as per thetimes, article behind a paywall so not got the full details but certainly a change from a month ago.
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jamesedwards
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Naffman wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:17 am
Gambling Companies to pay levy as per thetimes, article behind a paywall so not got the full details but certainly a change from a month ago.
Gambling levy should be raised to support addicts
Alexis Conran
Wednesday December 14 2022, 9.00pm GMT, The Times
In the year ending March 2022 gamblers in Britain lost £14.1 billion to the betting industry. The UK Health Security Agency estimates there are 246,000 gambling addicts in the UK, with about 2.2 million people either problem gamblers or at risk of addiction. As a result, there has been a 42 per cent rise in demand for NHS gambling clinics in the past year.
Sometimes called the “hidden addiction”, gambling manifests no physical signs and poses no physical risk to the gambler. With alcohol and drugs there does come a point when one more drink or one more hit can be fatal. With gambling that never comes. Gambling addicts I have spoken to, people who have lost everything, genuinely believe that if they could get hold of £10 they could make it all back. Chasing after losses usually means getting into deeper debt until the only way out is to end it all. There were an estimated 400 suicides linked to gambling last year.
The first evidence review of gambling-related harms in England found that it cost “at least £1.27 billion in 2019 to 2020 in England alone”. The economic cost of suicide was estimated to be £619.2 million and the cost of homelessness associated with harmful gambling £62.8 million. The same study also found that 7 per cent of the population was negatively affected by someone else’s gambling. These are big numbers affecting many people.
In contrast, the four largest operators — Ladbrokes owner Entain, William Hill, Paddy Power owner Flutter and Bet365 — contributed just £19 million to help problem gamblers in 2021. The industry abides by a voluntary 0.1 per cent levy on its takings. By law they need to make an annual financial contribution to approved organisations but that can be as little as £1. Gambling companies have pledged more money in the future — £60 million by 2023 — but that is way short of what is needed.
The government is due to publish its proposals to reform gambling laws. Campaigners hope for a 1 per cent statutory levy. This could raise £140 million towards treatment of problem gamblers. The firms would have to help people whose lives are ruined by some of their products instead of passing that bill to the taxpayer.
The gambling industry is very powerful. A look at the Commons register of members’ interests shows it is one of the biggest contributors, with almost £225,000 in wages and freebies taken by 28 MPs in 2021. Gambling with Lives, a charity set up by the families bereaved by gambling-related suicides, doesn’t have that sort of power; what the families do have is the memory of their dead relatives and the hope that might convince ministers to do the right thing and enforce a statutory levy of 1 per cent.
Michael5482
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jamesedwards wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2023 5:35 pm
Naffman wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:17 am
Gambling Companies to pay levy as per thetimes, article behind a paywall so not got the full details but certainly a change from a month ago.
Gambling levy should be raised to support addicts
Alexis Conran
Wednesday December 14 2022, 9.00pm GMT, The Times
In the year ending March 2022 gamblers in Britain lost £14.1 billion to the betting industry. The UK Health Security Agency estimates there are 246,000 gambling addicts in the UK, with about 2.2 million people either problem gamblers or at risk of addiction. As a result, there has been a 42 per cent rise in demand for NHS gambling clinics in the past year.
Sometimes called the “hidden addiction”, gambling manifests no physical signs and poses no physical risk to the gambler. With alcohol and drugs there does come a point when one more drink or one more hit can be fatal. With gambling that never comes. Gambling addicts I have spoken to, people who have lost everything, genuinely believe that if they could get hold of £10 they could make it all back. Chasing after losses usually means getting into deeper debt until the only way out is to end it all. There were an estimated 400 suicides linked to gambling last year.
The first evidence review of gambling-related harms in England found that it cost “at least £1.27 billion in 2019 to 2020 in England alone”. The economic cost of suicide was estimated to be £619.2 million and the cost of homelessness associated with harmful gambling £62.8 million. The same study also found that 7 per cent of the population was negatively affected by someone else’s gambling. These are big numbers affecting many people.
In contrast, the four largest operators — Ladbrokes owner Entain, William Hill, Paddy Power owner Flutter and Bet365 — contributed just £19 million to help problem gamblers in 2021. The industry abides by a voluntary 0.1 per cent levy on its takings. By law they need to make an annual financial contribution to approved organisations but that can be as little as £1. Gambling companies have pledged more money in the future — £60 million by 2023 — but that is way short of what is needed.
The government is due to publish its proposals to reform gambling laws. Campaigners hope for a 1 per cent statutory levy. This could raise £140 million towards treatment of problem gamblers. The firms would have to help people whose lives are ruined by some of their products instead of passing that bill to the taxpayer.
The gambling industry is very powerful. A look at the Commons register of members’ interests shows it is one of the biggest contributors, with almost £225,000 in wages and freebies taken by 28 MPs in 2021. Gambling with Lives, a charity set up by the families bereaved by gambling-related suicides, doesn’t have that sort of power; what the families do have is the memory of their dead relatives and the hope that might convince ministers to do the right thing and enforce a statutory levy of 1 per cent.
I have no objection to a statutory levy being paid by the gambling industry but to the NHS to setup specific gambling related harm support not to anti-gambling organastions.
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Naffman
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jamesedwards wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2023 5:35 pm
Naffman wrote:
Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:17 am
Gambling Companies to pay levy as per thetimes, article behind a paywall so not got the full details but certainly a change from a month ago.
Gambling levy should be raised to support addicts
Alexis Conran
Wednesday December 14 2022, 9.00pm GMT, The Times
In the year ending March 2022 gamblers in Britain lost £14.1 billion to the betting industry. The UK Health Security Agency estimates there are 246,000 gambling addicts in the search.php?search_id=newpostsUK, with about 2.2 million people either problem gamblers or at risk of addiction. As a result, there has been a 42 per cent rise in demand for NHS gambling clinics in the past year.
Sometimes called the “hidden addiction”, gambling manifests no physical signs and poses no physical risk to the gambler. With alcohol and drugs there does come a point when one more drink or one more hit can be fatal. With gambling that never comes. Gambling addicts I have spoken to, people who have lost everything, genuinely believe that if they could get hold of £10 they could make it all back. Chasing after losses usually means getting into deeper debt until the only way out is to end it all. There were an estimated 400 suicides linked to gambling last year.
The first evidence review of gambling-related harms in England found that it cost “at least £1.27 billion in 2019 to 2020 in England alone”. The economic cost of suicide was estimated to be £619.2 million and the cost of homelessness associated with harmful gambling £62.8 million. The same study also found that 7 per cent of the population was negatively affected by someone else’s gambling. These are big numbers affecting many people.
In contrast, the four largest operators — Ladbrokes owner Entain, William Hill, Paddy Power owner Flutter and Bet365 — contributed just £19 million to help problem gamblers in 2021. The industry abides by a voluntary 0.1 per cent levy on its takings. By law they need to make an annual financial contribution to approved organisations but that can be as little as £1. Gambling companies have pledged more money in the future — £60 million by 2023 — but that is way short of what is needed.
The government is due to publish its proposals to reform gambling laws. Campaigners hope for a 1 per cent statutory levy. This could raise £140 million towards treatment of problem gamblers. The firms would have to help people whose lives are ruined by some of their products instead of passing that bill to the taxpayer.
The gambling industry is very powerful. A look at the Commons register of members’ interests shows it is one of the biggest contributors, with almost £225,000 in wages and freebies taken by 28 MPs in 2021. Gambling with Lives, a charity set up by the families bereaved by gambling-related suicides, doesn’t have that sort of power; what the families do have is the memory of their dead relatives and the hope that might convince ministers to do the right thing and enforce a statutory levy of 1 per cent.
Thanks for that James - much appreciated!
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Naffman
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Days away apparently
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Naffman
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Officially next Thursday
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Euler
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Location: Bet Angel HQ

White paper looks like it is finally here - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65249542
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napshnap
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Euler wrote:
Thu Apr 27, 2023 8:11 am
White paper looks like it is finally here - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65249542
"Sources say these will kick in when a gambler loses £1,000 in 24 hours"

What do you think, Peter, how will it change markets? Will it motivate bettors to hedge/hedge more often? Will we see a rise of total traded amounts, more TakeSP bets?

"Culture Secretary Lucy Frazer, who will outline the plans in Parliament later, says the rise of smartphones means "now there's a Las Vegas on every phone"."

Liar... Now there is a Wall Street/the City on every phone! Focus on that!

"Ms Frazer said her "balanced" proposal would still let people enjoy a flutter."

Ohhh, should we, plebs, fall on our knees and kiss her feet for her incredible generosity?! Does she confuse us with her poodle?
Last edited by napshnap on Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:29 am, edited 3 times in total.
sionascaig
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napshnap wrote:
Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:13 am


"Sources say these will kick in when a gambler loses £1,000 in 24 hours"
"or £2,000 over 90 days"

mmm.... that could easy be a variance on a profitable strategy
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napshnap
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sionascaig wrote:
Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:23 am
napshnap wrote:
Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:13 am


"Sources say these will kick in when a gambler loses £1,000 in 24 hours"
"or £2,000 over 90 days"

mmm.... that could easy be a variance on a profitable strategy
Totally.
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