How real is practice mode?

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johnsheppard
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:00 am
Location: Cairns Australia

So I am new at this and practicing in practice mode. And I wonder, how does betangel know you'll really get matched at your allotted practice stake...

For example, if I put $100,000 into a low liquidity market to back at say $2.00...I'd say normal circumstances would freak the whole market out.
But presume the market didnt freak out....and then the price really did move to $2.10 (not knowing your $100,000 was there....would betangel treat the price as going to $2.10...or just eat the 'real' amount out of your $100,000 stake and remain at $2?

I suppose there's one way to find out. Just wondered how real practice mode is .....and at some point I wanted to get into back testing (dunno how), but then I wondered...how real can one really backtest something....

Thank you for any discussion.
eatyourgreens
Posts: 243
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:53 am

hi John,
Peter has done a video on how realistic practice mode is, it is on youtube and I am sure some one will point you to it. From memory, I think it explained that it is very realistic using small stakes, but not so with larger stakes.

Have a nice day! :)
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BetScalper
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:47 pm

In practice mode your money never enters the market.

I and others have strategies that work fine In Practice mode but fail as soon as you switch to live.

Practice mode should only be used to test your triggers are working as expected. Not the results.
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Euler
Posts: 24700
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

Live vs practice mode, bloopers included: -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZp7Aull5Cw
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ruthlessimon
Posts: 2094
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:54 pm

Most stuff traded "realistically" will break down on sim

If we're focusing purely on edge, practise mode is pretty dang useful (because scale isn't part of the equation - just using market orders, it's gonna be highly accurate).

What's the difference between a realistic backtest, & realistic practise mode? <- cos most won't deny how powerful a good backtest sim is; of which, practise mode is the obvious next step

But if we're focusing on fill/scale, yah, live becomes useful (but we need a framework in place (edge)). Sacrifice some of that edge, for more scale, for more overall profit. But are most even at this level?
ruthlessimon wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:48 pm
I saw a video recently about moving from sim to live. Although this was more aimed at manual traders. But the rule of thumb was the following:

"Divide your sim performance by 5"
Euler wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:45 pm
Dividing by 5 is pretty harsh.

Practice mode is there to debug and familiarise.
"debug" is a vague term ;) - might as well be "dodgy variable", "dodgy strategy"!
jamesg46
Posts: 3769
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

johnsheppard wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:14 am
So I am new at this and practicing in practice mode. And I wonder, how does betangel know you'll really get matched at your allotted practice stake...

For example, if I put $100,000 into a low liquidity market to back at say $2.00...I'd say normal circumstances would freak the whole market out.
But presume the market didnt freak out....and then the price really did move to $2.10 (not knowing your $100,000 was there....would betangel treat the price as going to $2.10...or just eat the 'real' amount out of your $100,000 stake and remain at $2?

I suppose there's one way to find out. Just wondered how real practice mode is .....and at some point I wanted to get into back testing (dunno how), but then I wondered...how real can one really backtest something....

Thank you for any discussion.
Hi Joh, Firstly, Welcome to trading.

My opion of practice mode is, it's great to learn the fundementals of market moves, how different prices interact with eath other.

Depending on the stratagy you're wanting to practice, it can be both good and not so good. For example, if you're scalping, I personally think that while it will provide a base knowlege of where you should be salping, i.e at what prices and in what market, it does'nt give a true reflection of order fill... for example, if you're scalping at 6.0 wanting to close at 6.2 but there is £2000 waiting, your order in practice mode will be instantly matched because obviously its not actual money entering the market. In the real world you would be at the back of that que.... just keep that in mind.

Personally, I think its a good tool if you're looking at swing trading. You can get a feel for much bigger moves and it offers a more honest view.

Hope this helps.
jamesg46
Posts: 3769
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

jamesg46 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:02 pm
johnsheppard wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:14 am
So I am new at this and practicing in practice mode. And I wonder, how does betangel know you'll really get matched at your allotted practice stake...

For example, if I put $100,000 into a low liquidity market to back at say $2.00...I'd say normal circumstances would freak the whole market out.
But presume the market didnt freak out....and then the price really did move to $2.10 (not knowing your $100,000 was there....would betangel treat the price as going to $2.10...or just eat the 'real' amount out of your $100,000 stake and remain at $2?

I suppose there's one way to find out. Just wondered how real practice mode is .....and at some point I wanted to get into back testing (dunno how), but then I wondered...how real can one really backtest something....

Thank you for any discussion.
Hi Joh, Firstly, Welcome to trading.

My opion of practice mode is, it's great to learn the fundementals of market moves, how different prices interact with eath other.

Depending on the stratagy you're wanting to practice, it can be both good and not so good. For example, if you're scalping, I personally think that while it will provide a base knowlege of where you should be salping, i.e at what prices and in what market, it does'nt give a true reflection of order fill... for example, if you're scalping at 6.0 wanting to close at 6.2 but there is £2000 waiting, your order in practice mode will be instantly matched because obviously its not actual money entering the market. In the real world you would be at the back of that que.... just keep that in mind.

Personally, I think its a good tool if you're looking at swing trading. You can get a feel for much bigger moves and it offers a more honest view.

Hope this helps.
*John
trader44
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:28 pm

practice mode is great to learn markets etc but it doesnt have the emotion of trading with real money and thats a whole different ballgame to contend with :oops:
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johnsheppard
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:00 am
Location: Cairns Australia

Euler wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:07 am
Live vs practice mode, bloopers included: -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZp7Aull5Cw
Thank you, this explains it very well. Very helpful video! ...also full of raw talent in so many other ways....
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johnsheppard
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:00 am
Location: Cairns Australia

...and thank you everyone for your input. Really appreciate it.

I gather when one does get into back testing, it's essentially the same as being in practice mode....but I guess early days for me on that...baby steps...makes sense that backtesting is usuful for finding an edge. I suppose it depends on the strategy as to if it can really be tested......i.e. you cant say...bully the market in practice mode :)
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BetScalper
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:47 pm

Apart from the obvious mentioned above, be careful using practice mode.

Betfair these days will limit your account or even close it unless you place some real trades etc.
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