Best job to have while learning to trade

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Kafkaesque
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johnsheppard wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:29 am
I can't say I enjoy it all that much. :) It's tiring...
All your own "suggestions" for debate are hints, and do correct me if I'm wrong, that you're aching to get away from your current situation more so than knowing that you really want to trade for a living. Certain "hard to get your foot in the door" does have unpaid internships and what have you, but I'd say trading is too niche for that to be an option. There's no viable way to learn while doing something else to pay the bills, best as I can tell.

You're approaching the issue the wrong way around, would be my advice. It's hard, in fact near impossible imo, to go from an 8-9 hour day of not enjoying life all that much and feeling it's tiring, to setting down in front of screen and flicking a switch to become someone with the positive outlook needed to spot trading opportunities and to perform at your peak.

Don't mean to come across too much like Tony Robbins, but unless your attitude changes towards your current job to something along the lines of leaving for work thinking that you're going to have an awesome day and you're going to be brilliant at it, then what's the flipping point? And more than that, you've got next to no chance at being awesome and brilliant when you get home to trade. Worse still, should I be wrong, and you do have a chance and do make it, what if trading as a job and chore is not something you enjoy all that much and is tiring? You'll have been unhappy for years, for the sake of striving for some unknown quantity that is trading.
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johnsheppard
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Location: Cairns Australia

Kafkaesque wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:19 pm
All your own "suggestions" for debate are hints, and do correct me if I'm wrong, that you're aching to get away from your current situation more so than knowing that you really want to trade for a living. Certain "hard to get your foot in the door" does have unpaid internships and what have you, but I'd say trading is too niche for that to be an option. There's no viable way to learn while doing something else to pay the bills, best as I can tell.

You're approaching the issue the wrong way around, would be my advice. It's hard, in fact near impossible imo, to go from an 8-9 hour day of not enjoying life all that much and feeling it's tiring, to setting down in front of screen and flicking a switch to become someone with the positive outlook needed to spot trading opportunities and to perform at your peak.
I appreciate the note on this, for me I dont think that's the case tho. I've been doing what I've been doing for 10 years and im typicaly the reliable guy at work because I have enjoyed it in the past....im an introvert doing an extroverts work though...and I've come to the conclusion its not for me long term...the job is burning me slowly out...

I know i can't flip a switch, just quit, and go and trade for a living. There are certain realities involved :) As an aside, I also have dependents to support....

I'm more of an automation sort of guy, and i do that in my spare time, but, I guess I want more spare time to spend on it :) If I can cut a 4 year trip to profitability down to 2.....that'd just be nice :)

I am currently contemplating contacting small business owners that might have the flexibility to work something out...
As suggested earlier, security, they do nothing 99% of all day...although, id hate to be focusing on my stuff while the bank gets robbed :)
Slow small retail stores might be an avenue...
Graveyard shifts somewhere is probably where I should be looking...
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napshnap
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I think it's cool and useful to have professional programmer's background: you learn some trading / betting patterns and automate it. It doesn't require to quit your main job or lose your skills. Maybe it's even better than being just a professional trader / gambler without programmer's skills.
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alexmr2
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Anything which allows you to have as many afternoons at home as possible because it's the practice that counts.

There are jobs with shifts that could fit around trading however you would need to be realistic with sleep if it was night shifts. I have a friend who only works weekends and 2 hours each weekday morning. He doesn't trade but that would be ideal.

I have had jobs where I had free time on the internet, however I would certainly not be trading with real money at work because something or someone could come up and distract you. Since I lost my last job around a year ago I have been making almost enough to live on purely from matched betting but I did have quite a bit of savings, but now I have so many accounts restricted that I wouldn't be to live off matched betting alone.

If you can't get a job where you can fit the hours around trading then I'd recommend saving as much money as you can to live for 6 months and then being unemployed but spending every afternoon you can on practicing. It also depends on what stage you are at because I'd say it takes at least 6 months, but likely more, of being on almost every day to become profitable from scratch
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Derek27
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alexmr2 wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:42 pm
If you can't get a job where you can fit the hours around trading then I'd recommend saving as much money as you can to live for 6 months and then being unemployed but spending every afternoon you can on practicing. It also depends on what stage you are at because I'd say it takes at least 6 months, but likely more, of being on almost every day to become profitable from scratch
Sorry to contradict you, but I would advise anyone never to give up six months of their working life, never mind saving up to do so, simply to learn what is undoubtedly a difficult profession to learn and master!

You can learn computer programming or web design and be fairly confident of gaining the required skills if you know you have the aptitude, but for trades like hairdressing, plastering or sports trading, you may find that you just don't have the knack to master the craft, so it's quite a big gamble. It would make sense to reach a stage where you are profitable before actually taking the plunge.
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BetScalper
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I like to interview pole dancers when I am trading....

And looking at my current BF P&L statement it’s probably the reason why I am so crap at it.
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Dallas
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BetScalper wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:38 am
I like to interview pole dancers when I am trading....

And looking at my current BF P&L statement it’s probably the reason why I am so crap at it.
:lol:

As long as you have job satisfaction that can mean more than the money
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ShaunWhite
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BetScalper wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:38 am
I like to interview pole dancers when I am trading....
Speaking of which, must be iro 12yrs ago now but I had a 1/3 share in the Blue Room in Cheltenham for a while, I suspect some of you know it because it was always packed during Festival week.
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Dallas
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:51 pm
BetScalper wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:38 am
I like to interview pole dancers when I am trading....
Speaking of which, must be iro 12yrs ago now but I had a 1/3 share in the Blue Room in Cheltenham for a while, I suspect some of you know it because it was always packed during Festival week.
My wife's best friend is a pole dancer, not a stripper/lap dancing one instead she does it as a sport and has competed at a few regional events, apparently its up and coming very fast (no pun intended) and may only be a few years before its included in the Olympics.
stueytrader
Posts: 863
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Dallas wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:57 pm
ShaunWhite wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:51 pm
BetScalper wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:38 am
I like to interview pole dancers when I am trading....
Speaking of which, must be iro 12yrs ago now but I had a 1/3 share in the Blue Room in Cheltenham for a while, I suspect some of you know it because it was always packed during Festival week.
My wife's best friend is a pole dancer, not a stripper/lap dancing one instead she does it as a sport and has competed at a few regional events, apparently its up and coming very fast (no pun intended) and may only be a few years before its included in the Olympics.
I'll be sure to be trading (and researching) that market avidly in that case! :shock: :oops:
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Kai
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I have a few friends that struggle with this, some of them have a boring desk job where they don't really do much so they can trade/read/watch for hours and some work part time so they find time to do both, but unfortunately that's far from ideal and the learning process can take years, best job to have while learning to trade is no job. I will never tell someone to quit their job to pursue trading, it all depends on your circumstances, but that's what I did.

I started in 2014 as a complete beginner but on the plus side at 30 years of age I had no family of my own to distract me and plenty of savings so it made sense to go the extra mile and create perfect conditions for myself, to have the best chance of success. I developed a passion for it right off the bat (very important part imho) and I felt like I finally found my vocation, so it was very "easy" to work on it nonstop, although it was by far the hardest thing I ever did and most of my social life had to be sacrificed as well during that period. My initial 1000 euro learning bank somehow managed to survive the rough start, went down to half at one point after a tilting situation but it was a key lesson in the learning process so I did learn from it and bounced back by approaching premium charge zone after 6 months (although it took 14 months to finally get the consistency that I wanted). My biggest two problems in the first year were tetris effect and hypercreativity but eventually I found ways to deal with that. Running into problems and making mistakes is inevitable and important, it's up to you to solve the problems and learn from mistakes if you really want to progress. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are many paths to become a trader but time is the one key thing they all have in common, you need to put in real quality time to master any skill, I was lucky that I had the right set of circumstances to compress that time as much as I could, but in the end it's all a question of how badly you want it.
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ruthlessimon
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Great post :)
eightbo
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Kai wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 12:21 pm
My biggest two problems in the first year were tetris effect and hypercreativity but eventually I found ways to deal with that.
Hi Kai thanks for sharing, would you mind giving some more info on how the Tetris effect was problematic for you?
I find myself constantly thinking in probabilities and risk/reward in real-life scenarios but have found it to be beneficial.

Cheers
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Kai
Posts: 6092
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:21 pm

eightbo wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:03 am
Kai wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 12:21 pm
My biggest two problems in the first year were tetris effect and hypercreativity but eventually I found ways to deal with that.
Hi Kai thanks for sharing, would you mind giving some more info on how the Tetris effect was problematic for you?
I find myself constantly thinking in probabilities and risk/reward in real-life scenarios but have found it to be beneficial.

Cheers
Well according to Wikipedia the Tetris effect occurs when people devote so much time and attention to an activity that it begins to pattern their thoughts, mental images, and dreams. My problem was the dreams part, that's where the Tetris effect manifests itself in the extreme. If you have a decently balanced everyday life then the effects should only be mild and beneficial, in other words the brain is just trying to help you understand things quicker. But if you have virtually no balance (like me during that intense period) and have an enthusiastic/passionate/obsessive personality (again, like me) then it can severely disrupt your sleep with recurring dream patterns.

In the context of trading, for example imagine having a dream where you're trying to close out a good swing position but you just can't seem to do it as the price keeps running away from you never fully reaching your exit positions, the brain thinks he's helping you by playing an endless loop of this image but it's actually torturing you and turning it into a bit of a nightmare, and thus preventing you from deep sleep. Once you accrue a large amount of sleep debt then it's hard to function properly, let alone trade effectively, so I was forced to drop everything and take a break. Never had any insomnia problems and my sleep is usually fantastic, but this happened to me a few times during that period at worst possible moments just when I was making the biggest progress (which can't be a coincidence) so it was incredibly annoying. It always took a full week for the recurring dreams to fully dissipate from my subconscious mind. Of course, after you get used to a new activity then you should no longer suffer from these types of issues. But that was all before I knew how to do deal with it, I still occasionally get "tetrised" by a new activity/project if I seriously overdo it, but as soon as I start feeling it I just detox a bit before bed by doing something relaxing, it makes a big difference. And if I still do wake up after 1-2-3 hours by an annoying recurring dream then instead of tossing and turning all night like before I just get out of bed for at least a few minutes to get my bearings and reset my mind (so to speak) before going back to bed, that does the trick.
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The Silk Run
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Location: United Kingdom

Universal Credit by day, Asian markets by night GMT+6. Trip to Food Bank at lunchtime to satisy the doubters, lol ...
Saturday window cleaning job. Much less risk than being on Betfair's ladder.
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