How many traders lose?

Long, short, Bitcoin, forex - Plenty of alternate market disuccsion.
Post Reply
User avatar
Euler
Posts: 19997
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ
Contact:

I own some financial broker stocks and since ESMA regulation came in, they have to declare how many of their clients lose money over a year on all advertising.

These figures don’t take any other factors into account. Just total accounts over year, regardless of experience, asset class traded, number of trades or investment objectives.

It also only applies to people who are inexperienced, defined as retail clients rather than experienced traders. You have to be classified when you are with a broker. So I'm considered a 'professional' trader because of the time in the market and resources available to me.

Losing accounts over a one year period: -

eToro – 65%
Spreadex – 67%
Saxo Capital Markets – 69%
Darwinex – 69%
InterTrader – 72%
ayondo – 72.1%
Core Spreads – 75%
ETX Capital – 76%
City Index – 76%
OANDA – 77%
CMC Markets – 78%
IG – 79%
XTB – 79%
London Capital Group – 79%
FxPro – 79%
Pepperstone – 79%
FXCM – 79.79%
Forex.com – 80%
Plus 500 – 80.60%
GKFX – 81.75%

Standard deviation of 6.2%
weemac
Posts: 615
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:16 pm

There's probably a strong correlation between losing traders and toilet roll hoarders.
User avatar
wearthefoxhat
Posts: 1691
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:55 am

Euler wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:45 pm
I own some financial broker stocks and since ESMA regulation came in, they have to declare how many of their clients lose money over a year on all advertising.

These figures don’t take any other factors into account. Just total accounts over year, regardless of experience, asset class traded, number of trades or investment objectives.

It also only applies to people who are inexperienced, defined as retail clients rather than experienced traders. You have to be classified when you are with a broker. So I'm considered a 'professional' trader because of the time in the market and resources available to me.

Losing accounts over a one year period: -

eToro – 65%
Spreadex – 67%
Saxo Capital Markets – 69%
Darwinex – 69%
InterTrader – 72%
ayondo – 72.1%
Core Spreads – 75%
ETX Capital – 76%
City Index – 76%
OANDA – 77%
CMC Markets – 78%
IG – 79%
XTB – 79%
London Capital Group – 79%
FxPro – 79%
Pepperstone – 79%
FXCM – 79.79%
Forex.com – 80%
Plus 500 – 80.60%
GKFX – 81.75%


I'm sure that CFD's are to blame for a high % of those figures.

eg: IG won't lower the leverage 1:30 to a more realistic 1:5. The result is, traders will blow their account/position when it goes against them, even with managed stop losses. IG would win either way as they get their fees any way. Yes, you could win bigger/quicker if it went your way, but % wise, the losers can be be bigger.
User avatar
Euler
Posts: 19997
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ
Contact:

I'm sure that CFD's are to blame for a high % of those figures.
Very likely
indigokid
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:01 am

As the sports markets are down I'm starting to tinker with financial markets.

It's a bit of a jump. But very interesting none the less. As you've said above the CFDs seem to be the kiss of death. As an investment banker mate of mine says, "It's the brokers that make the money, no matter what".

So, with that in mind, and tapping into your experience as sports traders, are there any markets/platforms that lend themselves particularly well to our mindset/trading styles?

The ladder from Bet Angel would be nice too.

Cheers.
User avatar
trad1ngbull
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:55 pm

indigokid wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:15 am
The ladder from Bet Angel would be nice too.
Absolutely. :lol:
CallumPerry
Posts: 507
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:12 pm
Location: Wolverhampton

Google Level 2 trading markets. This is a view of the markets similar to Bet Angel with the order book shown (in some software) as a ladder with both the 'Best Bid' and 'Best Offer' shown.

With the whole Corona thing about, I may take a more detailed look into stocks too but I have so many questions before risking any real money!
User avatar
rik
Posts: 1102
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:16 am
Location: London

dont know much about stocks but id assume long term traders the percentage that have a profit on their account would be much bigger as on average stock prices been going up apart from the last few weeks obviously.
i reckon fees must be the reason most of the accounts lose, if it was more than a 1 year period you would have to think percentage of losing account even higher as sample size in trading can be much lower than say on betfair?
Do all brokers charge each transaction or is there a fee structure similar to betfair as well?
CallumPerry
Posts: 507
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:12 pm
Location: Wolverhampton

I've wondered about these payments too. Without looking too deep into things, I've heard/read that opening and closing orders have a commission (though like Rik was asking, I too am unclear on the fee structures in place), a lot of platforms also charged a commission though some are now 0%?? annual cost to use the programme/app like Bet Angel? Apparently if you hold orders over night there's a fee? Something called a PDT rule for small accounts (which mine would be starting out). So so so many question marks??

Is there a comprehensive list of charges/things to consider for absolute beginners? Say I have back tested an idea with previous data and am at the stage I want to put some money in the markets for real?
User avatar
Euler
Posts: 19997
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ
Contact:

You would have to pay a small fortune to use software and services similar to Bet Angel and to get direct market access.
Post Reply

Return to “Trading Financial markets”