UK Economy

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Archangel
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Higher taxes for shittier services, a new Britain
Archery1969
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Don’t know why people are getting so upset.

The OBR have said the Chancellor has basically deferred most of the pain, debt, tax rises and spendings cuts needed until after the next General Election. That means whoever wins is going to be seriously in trouble until 2028 at least. And that assumes no more pandemics or wars affecting the country directly or indirectly.

There is no quick fix, the country has suffered a heart attack/stroke and won’t recover anytime soon.

So, if your poor now, then there is no hope on the horizon. Just have to grin and beer it until 2028, if your lucky.
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Derek27
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Archery1969 wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:01 pm
Don’t know why people are getting so upset.

The OBR have said the Chancellor has basically deferred most of the pain, debt, tax rises and spendings cuts needed until after the next General Election. That means whoever wins is going to be seriously in trouble until 2028 at least. And that assumes no more pandemics or wars affecting the country directly or indirectly.

There is no quick fix, the country has suffered a heart attack/stroke and won’t recover anytime soon.

So, if your poor now, then there is no hope on the horizon. Just have to grin and beer it until 2028, if your lucky.
That's the problem. With a serious man in No. 11, politics has lost all its comedy.
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Archery1969 wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:01 pm
Don’t know why people are getting so upset.

I think people have every right to be upset with the prospect of being poorer for the next decade, the same party in power for the last 12 years who admit no responsibility for any wrongdoing.
greenmark
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Archery1969 wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:29 pm
Things are also bad in Germany and other European countries. I dont have a bloomberg account but the headline in the URL shows the context.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -ecb-hikes

And I dont have a guardian account either but the headline is:

"Eurozone inflation hits record high of 10.7%; UK mortgage approvals, credit card borrowing fall – as it happened"

And i dont have a fortune account either but again the URL shows the context:

https://fortune.com/2022/10/10/global-r ... n-stanley/

Headline:

"This debate to some extent is over.’ Major economies are already in a global recession, Morgan Stanley strategist says"
Cobblers! We are supposed to be an apex economy. And at the moment we're failing. And have been since 2016.
greenmark
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And btw just watching newsnight and Thangam Debbonaire is a deeply disturbing person for me. What's all that surplus blinking about? Streuth, she's plain weird.
Archery1969
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greenmark wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:48 pm
Archery1969 wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:29 pm
Things are also bad in Germany and other European countries. I dont have a bloomberg account but the headline in the URL shows the context.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -ecb-hikes

And I dont have a guardian account either but the headline is:

"Eurozone inflation hits record high of 10.7%; UK mortgage approvals, credit card borrowing fall – as it happened"

And i dont have a fortune account either but again the URL shows the context:

https://fortune.com/2022/10/10/global-r ... n-stanley/

Headline:

"This debate to some extent is over.’ Major economies are already in a global recession, Morgan Stanley strategist says"
Cobblers! We are supposed to be an apex economy. And at the moment we're failing. And have been since 2016.
What’s an apex economy ?

Anyway, people are in for a seriously rough time, just as bad as the 1980s and early 1990s. If they say 500,000 will lose their jobs then in reality you can probably double that at least.
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Derek27
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greenmark wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:48 pm
Cobblers! We are supposed to be an apex economy.
Nothing is "supposed" to be anything. It either is that thing or it isn't, and we're not. :)
sionascaig
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Archery1969 wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:09 am
greenmark wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:48 pm
Archery1969 wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:29 pm
Things are also bad in Germany and other European countries. I dont have a bloomberg account but the headline in the URL shows the context.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -ecb-hikes

And I dont have a guardian account either but the headline is:

"Eurozone inflation hits record high of 10.7%; UK mortgage approvals, credit card borrowing fall – as it happened"

And i dont have a fortune account either but again the URL shows the context:

https://fortune.com/2022/10/10/global-r ... n-stanley/

Headline:

"This debate to some extent is over.’ Major economies are already in a global recession, Morgan Stanley strategist says"
Cobblers! We are supposed to be an apex economy. And at the moment we're failing. And have been since 2016.
What’s an apex economy ?

Anyway, people are in for a seriously rough time, just as bad as the 1980s and early 1990s. If they say 500,000 will lose their jobs then in reality you can probably double that at least.
When the conservatives took office UK GDP was 80% of Germany's, it now 60% and still falling... However you measure it, its been a disaster. On a pint half full perspective - it could have been worse.
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Archangel
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Talk about being worst in class
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greenmark
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Archery1969 wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:09 am
greenmark wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:48 pm
Archery1969 wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:29 pm
Things are also bad in Germany and other European countries. I dont have a bloomberg account but the headline in the URL shows the context.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -ecb-hikes

And I dont have a guardian account either but the headline is:

"Eurozone inflation hits record high of 10.7%; UK mortgage approvals, credit card borrowing fall – as it happened"

And i dont have a fortune account either but again the URL shows the context:

https://fortune.com/2022/10/10/global-r ... n-stanley/

Headline:

"This debate to some extent is over.’ Major economies are already in a global recession, Morgan Stanley strategist says"
Cobblers! We are supposed to be an apex economy. And at the moment we're failing. And have been since 2016.
What’s an apex economy ?

Anyway, people are in for a seriously rough time, just as bad as the 1980s and early 1990s. If they say 500,000 will lose their jobs then in reality you can probably double that at least.
Apex being an economy being one that is big per capita (ignoring anomalies like monaco, lichenstein etc) and big in total GDP. Per capita we're about 20th, by total GDP we're 6th. So my point is we have immensely more wriggle room than most of the people on the planet.
But nonthless our economy has been flatlining since 2016, my reference for that is comparing the FTSE to other stock markets.
Markets don't lie, brexit is like a ball and chain on us at the moment. But as I 've said it's done and we have to get on with it. This "global recession" stuff is an excuse for the effects of brexit and Tory idealogy. Underneath the Ukraine, covid, china zero-covid strategy impact, we're still sinking.
The French stock market has recently surpassed the FTSE
You can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time.......
And the most vulnerable are going to be made to pay. As well as those on 125k+, who I imagine are pretty p**sed off today.
Archery1969
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Location: Newport

The Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has said he accepts that there is a £55bn gap in the public finances, a figure provided by the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR).
greenmark
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Archery1969 wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:22 pm
The Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has said he accepts that there is a £55bn gap in the public finances, a figure provided by the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR).
With respect (which I some times lack, for which I apologise) we all know there's a problem. Starmer recognisiing that is fine. The big question is what to do. Slash spending? Raise taxes? It seems to me Hunt has done both. The IFS and Paul Johnson whingeing is fine, but they/he don't carry the responsibility for their opinions.
The markets seem to like what Hunt has done.
I'll go with the markets.
Archery1969
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Location: Newport

greenmark wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 10:42 pm
Archery1969 wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:22 pm
The Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has said he accepts that there is a £55bn gap in the public finances, a figure provided by the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR).
With respect (which I some times lack, for which I apologise) we all know there's a problem. Starmer recognisiing that is fine. The big question is what to do. Slash spending? Raise taxes? It seems to me Hunt has done both. The IFS and Paul Johnson whingeing is fine, but they/he don't carry the responsibility for their opinions.
The markets seem to like what Hunt has done.
I'll go with the markets.
As far as I am concerned it’s fine to borrow if it’s to invest. But we should not be borrowing on international markets. The BOE is sitting on £600 billion of gold. Borrow from them at 0% over 5 years and invest in hospitals, education, defence, green energy and other infrastructure projects. Directly and indirectly the money would be repaid quickly by more employment, better paid jobs and healthier society. But you should not borrow to fund tax cuts or pay train drivers 18% when most of them already earn £12,000 more than drivers across the channel in France. That is madness. In my opinion.
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Archangel
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Archery1969 wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 10:56 pm
The BOE is sitting on £600 billion of gold.
Where do you get that number from ?
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