BITCOIN as an alternative to regular currency
You can now buy a Tesla car with Bitcoin but try and pay your mortgage or local supermarket in Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is just platform the C.I.A and US Government invented to launder all the world dirty money so it could inject 100's of $billions into the world economy after the credit crunch in 2008.
Central Banks look like they can print money forever (we know they cant) so I dont see Bitcoin being used as a primary currency by major nations but the lies of Haiti and some African countries i can seriously see them using it within 5-10 years.
Governments cant really control it, they will hate that.
Bitcoin is just platform the C.I.A and US Government invented to launder all the world dirty money so it could inject 100's of $billions into the world economy after the credit crunch in 2008.
Central Banks look like they can print money forever (we know they cant) so I dont see Bitcoin being used as a primary currency by major nations but the lies of Haiti and some African countries i can seriously see them using it within 5-10 years.
Governments cant really control it, they will hate that.
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superfrank
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:28 pm
From 2011. He trousered $500. Worth $80M today. Ouch!
Bitcoin is one of the silliest crazes ever, even worse than the infamous 'Tulip mania'.
There's no intrinsic value, real currency is backed by the government...you can exchange it for goods and services, but Bitcoin only has value in so far as it's able to be converted back to ordinary fiat currency first. No one is using it to pay for anything, why would they when the value could double or half in the blink of an eye.
The 'proof of work' system is using the electricity of a small country, incredibly silly and completely unnecessary (for instance 'proof of stake' doesn't need to use all that electricity to achieve security) the so-called 'decentralization' is a myth (the mining is mostly controlled by a few big collectives in China), and Elon Musk is just a rich playboy having fun (his endorsement of Dogecoin shows he's not being serious, he's just got money to burn and likes to play around).
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That said, i wouldn't put all cryptocurrencies in the same basket. There is an interesting new technology behind it - the 'block-chain' . Some of the other coins , like Ethereum might eventually prove to be useful because they can run 'Smart Contracts' on the blockchain , so there's the potential for some actual intrinsic value.
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What I said way back earlier in this epic thread still stands. I think that eventually Bitcoin (along with most other cryptocurrencies) will crash to zero, and only a few will survive and go on to become winners in the long run (the ones that actually do useful things like Ethereum).
So cryptocurrencies are here to stay, but probably not Bitcoin.
There's no intrinsic value, real currency is backed by the government...you can exchange it for goods and services, but Bitcoin only has value in so far as it's able to be converted back to ordinary fiat currency first. No one is using it to pay for anything, why would they when the value could double or half in the blink of an eye.
The 'proof of work' system is using the electricity of a small country, incredibly silly and completely unnecessary (for instance 'proof of stake' doesn't need to use all that electricity to achieve security) the so-called 'decentralization' is a myth (the mining is mostly controlled by a few big collectives in China), and Elon Musk is just a rich playboy having fun (his endorsement of Dogecoin shows he's not being serious, he's just got money to burn and likes to play around).
----
That said, i wouldn't put all cryptocurrencies in the same basket. There is an interesting new technology behind it - the 'block-chain' . Some of the other coins , like Ethereum might eventually prove to be useful because they can run 'Smart Contracts' on the blockchain , so there's the potential for some actual intrinsic value.
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What I said way back earlier in this epic thread still stands. I think that eventually Bitcoin (along with most other cryptocurrencies) will crash to zero, and only a few will survive and go on to become winners in the long run (the ones that actually do useful things like Ethereum).
So cryptocurrencies are here to stay, but probably not Bitcoin.
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abgespaced
- Posts: 176
- Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:25 am
- Location: Australia
I am new to crypto but there's a few things I don't quite understand from your post.
Real currency was backed by physical assets- gold/silver. Then we went off the gold standard and it was back by debt / money supply. Now we have even gone off that with permanent QE, so what is backing fiat? Only the rate of money printing. Which is accelerating. So now the gov can't promise anything, what are they backing?
Re: needing to be converted back to fiat- that was the story of the gold standard.. the promissory notes were guaranteed to be converted back to metal until everyone accepted the notes as the currency. Crypto is on that path so it's only a matter of adoption rate now before fiat is unnecessary also. The shift away from USD as the world currency will accelerate that push.
Yes China controls the mining but that's just new coins. They would need to own 51% or more of the entire Bitcoin blockchain, not just the new coins, in order to rewrite the proof. Compare this to central banks who can print an unlimited amount of extra money without any significant input other than changing the ink on the printers.
Elon Musk - yeah he's messing about with Dogecoin, but $1.5billion in Bitcoin is no joke.
I agree that the final form won't be Bitcoin, like the steam train v automobiles. It won't go away like trains won't go away, but we will find more efficient and useful cryptocurrencies/coins for specific applications as time goes on. I don't see it going to zero but it will probably flatline at some stage as altcoins find their place.
The biggest risk is the threat Bitcoin poses to central banks, therefore it is a major target. Possibly why institutions are buying it up- to pump it then dump it and replace it with CBDC's that they they control.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_b ... l_currency
Is the intrinsic value not any of these things - it is virtually tamper proof / it can be transacted instantly / it is both a means of exchange and a store of value / it has a limited supply ?Zenyatta wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:43 pmThere's no intrinsic value, real currency is backed by the government...you can exchange it for goods and services, but Bitcoin only has value in so far as it's able to be converted back to ordinary fiat currency first. No one is using it to pay for anything, why would they when the value could double or half in the blink of an eye.
Real currency was backed by physical assets- gold/silver. Then we went off the gold standard and it was back by debt / money supply. Now we have even gone off that with permanent QE, so what is backing fiat? Only the rate of money printing. Which is accelerating. So now the gov can't promise anything, what are they backing?
Re: needing to be converted back to fiat- that was the story of the gold standard.. the promissory notes were guaranteed to be converted back to metal until everyone accepted the notes as the currency. Crypto is on that path so it's only a matter of adoption rate now before fiat is unnecessary also. The shift away from USD as the world currency will accelerate that push.
Won't the system will become more power efficient as time goes on? The amount of coins are limited, in contrast to computing power which doubles every year, therefore maintenance costs drop off over time?Zenyatta wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:43 pmThe 'proof of work' system is using the electricity of a small country, incredibly silly and completely unnecessary (for instance 'proof of stake' doesn't need to use all that electricity to achieve security) the so-called 'decentralization' is a myth (the mining is mostly controlled by a few big collectives in China), and Elon Musk is just a rich playboy having fun (his endorsement of Dogecoin shows he's not being serious, he's just got money to burn and likes to play around).
Yes China controls the mining but that's just new coins. They would need to own 51% or more of the entire Bitcoin blockchain, not just the new coins, in order to rewrite the proof. Compare this to central banks who can print an unlimited amount of extra money without any significant input other than changing the ink on the printers.
Elon Musk - yeah he's messing about with Dogecoin, but $1.5billion in Bitcoin is no joke.
I agree that the final form won't be Bitcoin, like the steam train v automobiles. It won't go away like trains won't go away, but we will find more efficient and useful cryptocurrencies/coins for specific applications as time goes on. I don't see it going to zero but it will probably flatline at some stage as altcoins find their place.
The biggest risk is the threat Bitcoin poses to central banks, therefore it is a major target. Possibly why institutions are buying it up- to pump it then dump it and replace it with CBDC's that they they control.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_b ... l_currency
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johnsheppard
- Posts: 284
- Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:00 am
- Location: Cairns Australia
My anecdotal observation of people into cryptocurrency (at least in western countries and specifically on internet forums) is that they don't actually use it or own it for any practical purpose. Their intent is to either short term trade it or long term trade it. IMO that doesn't bode well...
Buying Tesla's with bitcoin I would say comes out of the Advertising/Marketing department rather than the engineering one...really...what practical problem does bitcoin solve in this instance? I can't think of one...
Presumably, the government having control over money, is actually a helpful thing for an economy if it is well managed.
I guess you gotta asked, which countries don't have well managed economies...and observe what happens there...
Buying Tesla's with bitcoin I would say comes out of the Advertising/Marketing department rather than the engineering one...really...what practical problem does bitcoin solve in this instance? I can't think of one...
Presumably, the government having control over money, is actually a helpful thing for an economy if it is well managed.
I guess you gotta asked, which countries don't have well managed economies...and observe what happens there...
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superfrank
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:28 pm
It is no coincidence that the value of BTC has exploded along with the balance sheets of central banks.
Money printing isn't going to stop, not a chance.
Stagflation is coming and the next desperate step will be debt forgiveness.
Money printing isn't going to stop, not a chance.
Stagflation is coming and the next desperate step will be debt forgiveness.
Yup, you got that bit right. Bitcoin is sold as being for 'the little guy', but in fact its just the opposite, the whales control the price. When Elon 'pumped it' by buying, he can just as easily 'dump it' by selling.
95% of BTC is owned by 2% of wallets, similarly I think I read recently about 50% of Dogecoin is owned by about 15 people with the biggest owning $1.5B
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abgespaced
- Posts: 176
- Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:25 am
- Location: Australia
Observe Nigeria. They broke their economy with hyperinflation. Guess which alternative currency is booming there now...johnsheppard wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:10 pmPresumably, the government having control over money, is actually a helpful thing for an economy if it is well managed.
I guess you gotta asked, which countries don't have well managed economies...and observe what happens there...
Yup. And outlawing Bitcoin.superfrank wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:10 amIt is no coincidence that the value of BTC has exploded along with the balance sheets of central banks.
Money printing isn't going to stop, not a chance.
Stagflation is coming and the next desperate step will be debt forgiveness.
Bitcoin can be marketed as whatever you want it to be. The fact is there are indeed "little guys" making very good use of it. E.g. Nigeria and the way it is opening up all sorts of new trade opportunities there. I doubt they care what Elon Musk is doing.
I have no idea how high Bitcoin will go, but I'd imagine it will go higher as it's closer to a mania now than a new paradigm.
You can't predict reliably what will happen and where it will end. But if people are feeling that Bitcoin is the new order it almost certainly wont be. It's got worse problems than traditional currency.
The Eco lobbying haven't really got their teeth stuck into the immense costs of mining. It's curious situation. I've played it by proxy, rather than directly. But I'd say this is one of few major tech trends that I wasn't in early on. Such is life.
No idea what happens next!
You can't predict reliably what will happen and where it will end. But if people are feeling that Bitcoin is the new order it almost certainly wont be. It's got worse problems than traditional currency.
The Eco lobbying haven't really got their teeth stuck into the immense costs of mining. It's curious situation. I've played it by proxy, rather than directly. But I'd say this is one of few major tech trends that I wasn't in early on. Such is life.
No idea what happens next!
The amount of young people especially 'investing' loads into Crypto is very concerning, I have a friend who just put $1k into dogecoin and I reckon that is well below average.Euler wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:27 amI have no idea how high Bitcoin will go, but I'd imagine it will go higher as it's closer to a mania now than a new paradigm.
You can't predict reliably what will happen and where it will end. But if people are feeling that Bitcoin is the new order it almost certainly wont be. It's got worse problems than traditional currency.
The Eco lobbying haven't really got their teeth stuck into the immense costs of mining. It's curious situation. I've played it by proxy, rather than directly. But I'd say this is one of few major tech trends that I wasn't in early on. Such is life.
No idea what happens next!
Everywhere you look it's Crypto and now people are targeting the smaller coins so they make more money, it reeks of greed and one day you would think it's all going to come crashing down.
Eco Groups should target electric cars and lithium mining too but they don't, makes you wonder why they don't.