Pressure getting to me

[stueytrader]

I'm sure he doesn't mind, that couldn't be more on topic. Best of luck though, sounds like a proper test of character and mentality, but not necessarily your trading ability! You can see it as a big opportunity too, like a little push to make the step that you maybe would not do on your own.

Thanks Kai - yes, I'm currently alternating between thinking this is the best and worst situation I could have hoped for. I would not have chosen to be so reliant on my trading income, but it sure focuses the mind!
I am fairly confident in the general side of trading ability, because I can see my lengthy positive records. But, the nagging doubt is the thought that it would be the worst time to hit a downturn.
Not that I have an awful lot of choice currently. Necessity really is a crucial factor sometimes.

Funnily, just as a flipside, I did have a small upturn in my 'plan b' earnings since I actually posted earlier, but still not on the scale needed. I am maybe looking at some eventual compromise - some from trading, some from my other income. But the next 3 or 4 months will be interesting, for sure.

I traded well enough today, so I'm hopeful to just grind this period away, to be honest.

Interesting situation. I was going to say you sounded like you were concerned before you've seen any evidence that you're not producing the results you need to, but it sounds like that was the case and that you've now had a positive sign in the form of today's result.

For me it wasn't a black and white sort of situation — the degree to which you "need" to perform will probably translate into a certain amount of pressure that you feel. The Negativity Bias is always going to make it FEEL (and correlating thoughts which arise) worse than it is in reality, which may provide some comfort.
Your "compromise" with trading/plan b sounds like a good idea. Returns from plan b should alleviate a good chunk of any pressure off the bat, and any improvements you can make will help further.

Idk if it will help or not but here are some of my thoughts:
It's easy to just say keep doing what you're doing and follow the same process but underlying psychological forces are powerful forces and whilst they can definitely get in your way, you can also make them work for you. Frame the situation in a positive light, not a negative one. It's an opportunity, a chance to prove yourself. That unexpected moment which if you are successful, could change your life for the better. Whatever's going to work for you. Then stay in that mental lane as it were consistently through the 4 months.

I'd just say seek to keep it simple and maintain a balanced lifestyle, particularly exercise, rest, diet, but also activities, habits, social stuff.
Do the things you'd normally do outside of the markets and don't spend too high of a percentage of your focus on trading.
The objective should be to emotionally invest as little as possible into the idea of this next 4 months needing to work out.
Get an action plan together at the start then stop giving energy to it where possible. When you catch an unnecessary thought relating to the idea, just redirect it, framing it in a positive light, such as your proven track record, and remind yourself that by following your process day-to-day, you can achieve what you need to (or whatever self-talk you prefer). Act as if it's business as usual and it should turn out that way.
Make sure you're familiar with normal drawdowns for your strategy and even if things don't FEEL right, check back and make sure everything's within expected performance. Even if you do hit the rough patch, your best chance of recovery should be to continually execute your process as you have previously so nothing should be changing either way. Give your best performance and at the end of the day, that's all you can do.

A common mental trick used by ultra-marathon runners is to chunk up the seemingly insurmountable obstacle into small chunks so that they seem far more manageable. There are races which are legit 200miles long. Even though the runner has scaled up to the event and has the track record to say it's possible, when they start the race, and even at different times throughout the race, the mind

Pick a suitable timeframe and instead of performing for 4months, view it as only having to perform for X. After X, check it off and do another X, and another one. See if you can settle into a nice rhythm and before you know it that 4months will be up.

Thanks eightbo - some really great (positive) thoughts and ideas there.

Luckily, I think, I am by nature something of an optimist. So, I tend to think positively about the possible time and outcomes in general. I think that can help with some of the suggestions you make too.

I agree about keeping balance, I don't want to obsess about my trading, for sure. I am aiming to balance wider, and you make some key points there about different factors in lifestyle.

I think I also agree about breaking up time - I will probably feel happier for example if the first month passes well at the end point. Then move steadily into the next one, after that.

So far, I don't think I'm altering anything in my trading approach - I think that is my main aim. If I can keep on plan at all times, I should be able to replicate. One good thing is that this is summer and markets are now at least supportive again for sport trading.

Hope things are going well for you too. Cheers, Stu.

[eightbo]

­

Yeah. All your habits and processes are in place, let the muscle memory work its magic for you.
Have a similar thing going on right now, have built up my best track record of following plan ever atm but I know historically good/rare conditions can entice me and flip my over-aggressive switch. So was coming into Ascot knowing I just need to continue doing what I've done recently with the anticipation of getting in my own way. Made sure to throw my tunes on like usual, go through the typical daily routine as it if was any other day.
Some urges to significantly overstake came today as expected, fended off first few then acted on one in R5. Hedged that position shortly after as per plan, stopped trading as per plan missing last 2 races, no justifications because it's a special circumstance or whatever.

Overall pleased with 1st day and already. Can feel that resistance/discomfort where old behaviours are conflicting with new ones. I can tell from how it feels in the moment that the older behaviours have much less pull over me now (neural structures pruning), whereas the newer ones continue to strengthen. Still takes cognitive effort to push through present resistance but getting easier all the time.

I feel that these rare conditions are simultaneously a challenge and opportunity for me because it's forcing a lot of these urges up in a short amount of time compared to a typical trading day for me. It's a challenge cus it takes a load more energy for me vs. a typical trading day, and an opportunity because if I can continue to overcome them consistently, I'm getting loads of pruning done (weakening) on the old thought patterns and behaviours that no longer serve me in such a short amount of time so it can get me to that next level quicker if I get it right.

My thing is not as big of a deal for me as your situation but perhaps the way to look at it is accepting that yes it's a big challenge, but the opportunity (and subsequent reward) that's on the table is a big one for you too.
In both our cases it seems to be just a case of focusing up, giving best performance each day, and getting it done.

[Kai]

All your habits and processes are in place, let the muscle memory work its magic for you.

+1

Muscle memory is such an underrated aspect of trading in my opinion.

I feel a lot of people probably have some market behavior patterns already stored in there that the head doesn't even realize.

[stueytrader]

All your habits and processes are in place, let the muscle memory work its magic for you.

+1

Muscle memory is such an underrated aspect of trading in my opinion.

I feel a lot of people probably have some market behavior patterns already stored in there that the head doesn't even realize.

+1 back at you - the implicit aspect is so key for sure.

Unless you are an 'automated only' of course.

[NickH]

Interesting video regarding the goal vs. system. Although logical, it is very striking. Has me writing down my goal and underlying system on how to get there right now!

[stueytrader]

Can feel that resistance/discomfort where old behaviours are conflicting with new ones. I can tell from how it feels in the moment that the older behaviours have much less pull over me now (neural structures pruning), whereas the newer ones continue to strengthen. Still takes cognitive effort to push through present resistance but getting easier all the time.

I feel that these rare conditions are simultaneously a challenge and opportunity for me because it's forcing a lot of these urges up in a short amount of time compared to a typical trading day for me. It's a challenge cus it takes a load more energy for me vs. a typical trading day, and an opportunity because if I can continue to overcome them consistently, I'm getting loads of pruning done (weakening) on the old thought patterns and behaviours that no longer serve me in such a short amount of time so it can get me to that next level quicker if I get it right.

Funny, trading just recently with this new pressure seems to have actually made me much more aware of any potential weaknesses in my habits. I hope that can continue to be so.

Maybe sometimes not having to rely on good performance, as has been my old situation, made me a lot more sloppy mentally...?

I hope to apply this to my 'mental pruning' of any weak behaviours myself, as you suggest.

[eightbo]

Funny, trading just recently with this new pressure seems to have actually made me much more aware of any potential weaknesses in my habits. I hope that can continue to be so.

Maybe sometimes not having to rely on good performance, as has been my old situation, made me a lot more sloppy mentally...?

I hope to apply this to my 'mental pruning' of any weak behaviours myself, as you suggest.

Possibly.
One of many interesting things about neuroplasticity is drastic change can be made near-instantaneously.
In western society, there's this cultural norm that "change takes time". We expect it takes a few months to grieve someone's passing or that breaking years of smoking must take all this time and effort.
If you touch an electric fence without realising it's electric, a low-voltage zap will catch you by surprise but you might later forget and do it again. A higher voltage shock causing significantly more emotional pain will wire much stronger circuitry and you'll be looking out for possible fences to ensure you avoid getting shocked a 2nd time without even realising it.

Typically you can just brute force habits with gradual exposure to make any required changes you want in your brain but if you can find a way to juice up the level of emotional impact attached with the behaviours you're trying to change (or if it comes naturally like in your case), that mental pruning/strengthening (it's a push/pull) you're after will happen way faster. As an extreme example, you could take a trader who tries their best over a long period of time and in loads of ways to "fix" their trading problems but it's not until they have that acute emotional experience when they hit rock bottom until their brain actually rewires in any meaningful way and they're able to push on seemingly never looking back.

Interesting video regarding the goal vs. system. Although logical, it is very striking. Has me writing down my goal and underlying system on how to get there right now!

Good to hear. This segues nicely from above reply to stuey btw.

Any accurately designed system when carried out consistently will produce the result (goal) that you're looking for as a natural byproduct.

Another thing which can help when we're thinking about GOALS vs. SYSTEMS: We usually think of goals as being achieved by our "future self", whereas systems are things we (current self) are having to do right now, in the present. There is a critical difference here not covered in the video which is that when we think of our future selves and you look at an MRI, very different parts of the brain light up vs. when someone is asked to thinking about themselves. The same regions of the brain which light up when people are asked to think about their future self are the exact same regions which light up when asked to think about other people. Think about how powerful that is for a moment. Imagine wanting to implement change in your life and relying on SOMEONE ELSE to make the change — it's pretty much just this binary waiting game, where it either happens randomly or it doesn't.

For me, that meant I was always thinking my goals would realise themselves naturally at some point in the future. Just because I was focused on my goals and working each day (not necessarily having a clear system in place), I incorrectly thought that magic binary switch would eventually flip if given enough TIME. I often hear shit like "it takes 21 days to create a new habit" or something like that but it's nothing like that it's simply when the necessary changes have been made in the brain. Even after that point, its more like a probability of whether or not you continue doing something, with things like our other beliefs, values, current biological state, current environment etc. all contributing to that %. Things can definitely get to very near 100% if not 100% and as mentioned in reply above to stuey, how fast that happens could be anywhere from instantaneously to decades.

This concept of relying on our future self is so dangerous/trappy because it keeps continually putting change off into the future without realising (often subconsciously) and it never comes about. With things like this, people (particularly alpha types) don't want to hear it even if it applies to them because accepting it means giving up a sense of power/control, although you'd think traders are at least a little bit better in that respect. In any case, you can measure your results to gauge if you've actually changed or not, you shouldn't trust how you feel for example as that's typically unreliable. I don't know how believable/relatable this all comes across as so if it's not obvious then think how many times people want to make a change in their life and tell themselves "I'll start tomorrow", or similar. Just by accepting those three words we dramatically decrease the probability that we'll actually implement that change. We might even follow our system for a few days only to then "not feel in the mood" one time telling ourselves "it's ok, we'll make sure to do it every time after that" — that shifting of responsibility to your future self is what you want to avoid at all costs.

I literally wrote down and kept reminding myself "Future me isn't coming" to ensure I remember that any changes I want to make have to be done by me now, today. No putting it off. No justifications. Just get it done. That sort of lit a much needed fire under my ass each day.

Ultimately what you want to do is associate the discomfort/pain of doing your system tasks with the act of rewiring of your brain for the better.
It's a trainable mental skill of sorts you can train up but in my experience and from following various high performers and listening to their experiences, the discomfort/pain associated with rewiring the brain never really goes away so don't expect it to, however you can get better at framing it/taking consistent action anyway.
A fun experiment you can do is try brushing your teeth with the wrong hand each morning until it's automatic.

[NickH]

Totally agree on this one as well. I really like how you are able to clearly adres things that I think a lot of people (unconsciously) experience. Great job mate.

Seeing others do something and expecting that just by keep doing what you are doing without investing time in it, at some point you will achieve the same as them. Learned the hard way that that is not going to happen and decided that based on your post a few days ago I am going to really invest (besides having some sort of rock bottom experience with a laptop breaking down ). Starting with identifying my (underlying) system, working towards the goal. Adjusting the system along the way if required.

Looking at myself, I have written down my strategy today based on my experience from a trading and mental perspective. What worked for me from a trading perspective and what elements in a trade made me snap over and over, costing me the previous profits and more. First big step, actually making rules which needs you to think about what you are doing and why. Instead of just doing something and expecting magic to happen.

Starting point for me, plain and simple: enter a trade based on certain characteristics, but if the trade goes 5 ticks against me hedge and reasses the market. And slowly adjust based on learning.

[eightbo]

You read "The inner game of Tennis"? quick summary here
Should be a v. useful one for your 4month stint if not.

[stueytrader]

You read "The inner game of Tennis"? quick summary here
Should be a v. useful one for your 4month stint if not.

I have not read that, but from that video very interesting indeed, thanks for suggesting. I really like some of those approaches he lists, for my own challenge like you say. Trusting and quieting my mind is probably something I should develop and practice. I sometimes tend to shout to myself, and 'fight' (as he says to avoid doing) against bad habits. I can see a great point there that you can simply leave habits behind once you form new ones - simple but great concept there. I think I've already got there in many aspects, but good to work with a consistent approach in mind.

Anyway, so far so good for my experiences too - my first week of 'real need' from my trading has passed, and I still have my bank, lol. But to be serious, I've been very decent in results this week, even slightly ahead of my approx. target earnings. More important I don't think I've felt too different from previous trading, which I think can go in line with those points above.

I haven't always been perfect, but more perfect than not during this first week. Today was actually rather irritating, kept getting great positions that seemed to vanish in an eye blink, but I took my reds clearly as usual, calm and progressive. I didn't let it get to me that markets kept turning against me so often. When I looked at the day total was actually pleasantly surprised how well I'd done, because I didn't react too much in any cases and I'd forgotten some decent market results.

I will continue to work on keeping my mind steady, and not too loud when things go wrong. At least I feel I am already well programmed for my trade plans, and just keeping it mostly sub-conscious these days. Got to trust that underlying cognition.

[eightbo]

I talk a lot about habits/behaviours, I came across this resource today with a good page illustrating things

Found it from searching up "long-term success not short-term perfection".
I love that phrase and I first came onto it from MMA fighter Michael Chandler talking about flow state and his successes/failures (v. good watch)

I had a couple hiccups today in the trading session but whereas before I was a super perfectionist and created all this resistance to my mistakes (typically only then making things worse), now I'm way more forgiving living by this new philosophy and find it really helps keep the bigger picture in mind.

[wearthefoxhat]

I talk a lot about habits/behaviours, I came across this resource today with a good page illustrating things

Found it from searching up "long-term success not short-term perfection".
I love that phrase and I first came onto it from MMA fighter Michael Chandler talking about flow state and his successes/failures (v. good watch)

I had a couple hiccups today in the trading session but whereas before I was a super perfectionist and created all this resistance to my mistakes (typically only then making things worse), now I'm way more forgiving living by this new philosophy and find it really helps keep the bigger picture in mind.

Good watch.

That's why I post up some of my "better" trades. To create a mental highlight reel and get myself into the flow state and to do well.

[stueytrader]

Nice video I agree.

Maybe there are some correlations with a professional MMA fighter and professional trader - it's a bit like do or die out there in either domain.

[stueytrader]

Hi all,

Just thought I'd post an update for those interested in the specific challenge I have faced, and how this has gone. I'm sure could be relevant to many at some point in time.

Well, as you know I was depending on some trading income - overall, that issue did not go well. I think I found the added sudden pressure was too much. My trading performance did well for some time, but was gradually getting eroded by my poor decisions. Eventually I must admit I was starting to panic somewhat.

It was just at somewhat a crux point (where I would have needed money, but was not achieving it) that external forces intervened, in terms of external income. My trading did not suddenly have to be so precious any more.

So, I would say that to be truthful, my little 'experiment' failed - I did not cope sufficiently when 'having' to make a required trading income.

To add to this, since my overall finances have stabilised I have, perhaps not surprisingly, found my trading profits have once again started to become more consistent and generally healthy. The difference being I don't need to win those amounts (but that is when I do).

I'm sure there are lessons for me here (maybe others I don't know), but pressure sure is worth considering.

I'm back to my 'sideline' trading now, and likely to stay that way. I didn't work well enough with the need for income from trading, I can see that now. Though maybe there was also something about being forced into that (rather than planning it) too.

Cheers,
Stu.

[spreadbetting]

Trading towards a set target is always going to be a nightmare scenario especially if you're thrown into it as it's almost akin to chasing. At least now the pressure's off you're back to a more relaxed way of winning and know those skills are still there.