How are you dealing with the fact that there is no relevant trading to do?

Trading is often about how to take the appropriate risk without exposing yourself to very human flaws.
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trad1ngbull
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:55 pm

Hello,

I've been trading actively on Betfair since 2009 and all of this feels really strange.

As a tennis and football trader, I should be trading Indian Wells by now, it was my best event last year and March/April is a great month for football too. Euro 2020 is an amazing and liquid event for us all.

But even forgetting the financial side, I think it is a much deeper feeling.

Am I the only one feeling complacent and lazy at this point because I don't have a number of hours of strong and active mental activity? It's clear to me at this stage that we really develop a laser focus for our trading periods, mainly daily traders.

Most jobs are important and useful, but there are a lot where you don't need to be really focused to be successful. That's not the case for trading. It's all about focus and performance when you're working.

I think a lot of people around the world is feeling bored, but as traders, we develop really specific mental and psychological habits that need to be constantly fed.

Knowing that we'll probably be like this for months is even stranger.

I've been reading books, drawing and studying some topics I like for fun. They are good forms of abstraction, but as I said, there are certain details that are intrinsic to trading and that only now I realize that they are irreplaceable, at least for me so far.

How are you feeling these days?
What are the good and bad emotions that you're seeing by not trading at all?
What are you thinking to do in the next months because of trading inactivity?

I hope that you and your family members are well and healthy. May this phase be a learning process for everyone and that we can overcome all of this without losses.

Cheers
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Derek27
Posts: 23475
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Nevermind a month, one day's bad enough. ;)

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=15544

I'll be waiting until overseas racing shuts down and we know more about the situation before making plans, but I'm fortunate in that I moved last year and still have a fair amount of work to do on my flat. Also, the concern about catching a cold, nevermind Covid-19, coupled with concern about elderly relatives, the state of the nation and possibly the obliteration of the human race ( ;) ) is a slight distraction from trading.
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

It's interesting reading a manual trader's perspective and your withdrawal symptoms. Being fully automated I'm used to having lots of time I can call my own, at any time of year. I do my hours checking and refining and improving, but I'm not tied to the clock or calendar for that, although I'm disciplined about getting it done. Having days or weeks stretching ahead when I can get on with hobbies and the things that always get shelved sounds like bliss. I think the problems sometimes arise though when work is your hobby and you don't have other interests; then when work stops you're at a loose end. I understand that you might miss the adrenaline of trading manually, but adrenalin was the last thing on earth I wanted from this job tbh, been there done that, so I choose not to get involved with the daily emotional rollercoaster and especially being forced to sit at my desk when the calander said I had to.

As far as nothing to do, I'm keeping an eye on some new automation on 75 aus horse races, 92 aus dog races and about 137 uk dog races today, busy busy busy.
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Derek27 wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:16 am
Nevermind a month, one day's bad enough. ;)

viewtopic.php?f=36&t=15544
That was really interesting reading how manual trading was screwing me up back then (dec 17). The next month I made some radical changes and it really was a turning point, being forced to sit at a screen all day didn't suit me one bit.
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

Had no effect on me so far as racing carried on til yesterday, which felt like a Sunday. Today's the big day and once the dogs and AUS racing stops my bots will be redundant too. So too early to tell really, luckily I'm sound financially as once you start off poor you tend to be a bit of a hoarder as you worry it could all disappear.
Diacritical Quark
Posts: 175
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:55 pm

ShaunWhite wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:33 am
...

As far as nothing to do, I'm keeping an eye on some new automation on 75 aus horse races, 92 aus dog races and about 137 uk dog races today, busy busy busy.
Yep, in all honesty this has been a blessing in disguise, my bot performed admirably over the night and this morning, admirably not spectacularly but I wouldn't have even tried without the shut down in the UK. If the dogs perform anywhere near as good the bot will be performing as well as it would over UK Horse races, albeit over 10 times as many markets :lol:
Atho55
Posts: 637
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:37 pm
Location: Home of Triumph Motorcycles

Have attempted to build a Predictor for the Greyhounds to pass the time.
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Euler
Posts: 24700
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

I'm tidying up a few things for a few days then I'll be plunging headlong into some more data analysis and may branch into some new stuff. Been dipping in and out of financials this week as well.
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PDC
Posts: 2272
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:52 pm

Euler wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:32 pm
I'm tidying up a few things for a few days then I'll be plunging headlong into some more data analysis and may branch into some new stuff. Been dipping in and out of financials this week as well.
Hope you are feeling better, how's your temperature? Any further signs?

Any chance of the long awaited financial Youtube Channel? Or the book?
Trader Pat
Posts: 4327
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

My plan for tonight is to watch some of the horror movies that scared the crap out of me as a 12 year old.

The Omen and Salem's Lot :evil:
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Tuco
Posts: 727
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:43 pm

Having been a professional sportsman, I'm a rather competitive soul, so I'm missing it - but still, I have lots of things to do - will be washing then polishing the car tomorrow, I've the oven to clean, grass to cut, gardening to do, windows to clean etc. etc. etc... :)
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trad1ngbull
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:55 pm

ShaunWhite wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:33 am
I understand that you might miss the adrenaline of trading manually, but adrenalin was the last thing on earth I wanted from this job tbh
Not at all. I worked for years to low my adrenaline levels.

If I trade with a lot of adrenaline, my performance will be really bad in the long run and the risk control absolutely over what I want.

Football and Tennis are sports full of adrenaline already and the correspondent markets full of adrenaline traders. My trading approach is to attack systematically that wide irrational behaviour. I try to make my daily trading sessions as boring as possible.

What I really miss is the preparation and the session itself. I like the kind of focus/concentration I get doing it. It's like a trance mode, but not in a accelerated or exhaustive way.

I honestly don't see it as a job or a hobbie and maybe that's why it feels strange for me right now.

Of course, this is highly personal and subjective, but I try to see and approach trading as a creative expression, not a tangible pure art, but a mental and an imaginative one based on strategy.

I can go years without trading, tho. I have a lot of other stuff to do that I really enjoy, some that I see more like work (or a job) and some that's clearly a hobbie. But what I'm trying to say is that I don't know nothing that gives me the same pattern of feelings that trading activity gives me.

Having said that, I am not saying that trading is above anything in my life, far from it. Fortunately, I feel much more strong emotions in other things and the ones that really matter in life.

However, I love the process, the trading "game" and all the mental challenges it creates.
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

trad1ngbull wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:37 am
ShaunWhite wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:33 am
I understand that you might miss the adrenaline of trading manually, but adrenalin was the last thing on earth I wanted from this job tbh
Not at all....
I get it, we all get comfortable in our groove doing our thing and enforced change is bound to be disruptive. Finding a 'new normal' often takes quite a long time. Hang in there :)
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Diacritical Quark wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:50 am
in all honesty this has been a blessing in disguise.
These things often are...From the intro to yesterday's Moral Maze:

Danger and Opportunity?

The coronavirus pandemic has given the world a smack in the face. Sporting events have been cancelled, national borders have closed, jobs and livelihoods hang in the balance, the over-seventies will soon be asked to self-isolate and families are having difficult conversations about whether grandparents can be allowed to see their grandchildren. It’s life, but not as we know it. A cynical politician once said that you should never to let a serious crisis go to waste, and pundits are already suggesting that we now have an opportunity to re-think society. After all, in Chinese, the word for crisis is often interpreted as signifying both "danger" and "opportunity". Is it time to make changes that would not have been feasible without an existential threat hanging over us? Could we, for example, strengthen global partnerships, accelerate the shift to sustainable energy, think about a universal basic income or forge a new sense of community? Such ‘politicisation’ of the problem is appalling to those who just want to get through this ordeal and return to normal; they say it’s much too soon to conclude that free market liberal democracy has failed the stress-test. They are sure that, if we do the right things to protect the most vulnerable, it will soon be business as usual. Yet history shows that a major crisis can be a catalyst for crucial changes.
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trad1ngbull
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:55 pm

ShaunWhite wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:02 am
I get it, we all get comfortable in our groove doing our thing and enforced change is bound to be disruptive. Finding a 'new normal' often takes quite a long time. Hang in there :)
Thanks, ShaunWhite.

This topic is just to keep our conversation up to date. :)

We are not the real victims here, the people who died and his relatives are. And at the moment the hard and important work is from all health-related staff fighting day and night to save lives.

If the only thing we lose from COVID-19 is a few months of trading and some money, we will already be the lucky ones.
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