When to know if it’s time to quit...

Trading is often about how to take the appropriate risk without exposing yourself to very human flaws.
jamesg46
Posts: 3769
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

JasBarrow wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:11 pm
JasBarrow wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:51 pm
Ok man thanks for explaining but I have to completely disagree with you. What your describing is fairly normal for most people, most of us will adjust our 'personality' depending on who we're speaking to and the situation we find ourselves in so comparing that to DID (also known as multiple personality disorder) makes no sense at all.
jamesg46 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:45 pm
Ok. Altering a personality from one to another calculates to more than 1 personality imo.
This is where your logic falls down and its a really important point to emphasise. Personalities can change over time through life experience or a trauma or some kind of life changing event but its still just an evolution of the same single personality. Altering a personality doesnt create new versions of self.

DID is the existence of multiple distinct personalities which are completely separate entities.
Yes I know, I never said they weren't. That's your interpretation of what I said. I don't think that people with DID jump from one created personality to another, like some sort of space hoppers, continually forming new personalities.

You said it is also called multiple personality disorder. My comment to which your reply is about was pointing out to you that altering from one personality to another calculates to more than one personality... multiple personality disorder.

Take care.
Last edited by jamesg46 on Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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darchas
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I think some of the above discussion might be better off in its own thread or maybe over DM. I do think it's good that threads can go off on interesting tangents at times, but they should at least be semi-related/something that might be of use to the original poster and/or a user that might be interested in the topic.
jamesg46
Posts: 3769
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

darchas wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:53 pm
I think some of the above discussion might be better off in its own thread or maybe over DM. I do think it's good that threads can go off on interesting tangents at times, but they should at least be semi-related/something that might be of use to the original poster and/or a user that might be interested in the topic.
Being self aware is pretty relevant.
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ODPaul82
Posts: 683
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 6:32 am
Location: Digswell Herts

I have an A5 piece of paper taped to just above one monitor and an A4 to another, both of which are at near enough eye level.

The A5 contains
  • Do the research
    Keep to staking plan
    Follow my flowchart (its for tennis so have an internal flowchart of what to do in situations)
    Wait for the liquidity
    Lost a trade? There's 1000s a year
The A4 sheet is print outs from my P&L of my big losses with red pen in big letters reminding myself how I screwed up.
Use both as my prompts and guidance
JasBarrow
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:03 pm

jamesg46 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:44 pm
Yes I know, I never said they weren't. That's your interpretation of what I said.
I dont think its my interpretation of what was said its all there in black and white.

You made a statement, you were challenged on the statement, you then backtracked on the statement because it was challenged and finally say its my interpretation of the statement(s) thats off.

Anyway sorry to everyone else for hijacking the thread, my bad guys
zippus
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:19 pm

darchas wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:53 pm
I think some of the above discussion might be better off in its own thread or maybe over DM. I do think it's good that threads can go off on interesting tangents at times, but they should at least be semi-related/something that might be of use to the original poster and/or a user that might be interested in the topic.
Yeah I do agree, without wanting to be disrespectful to those that have taken the time to comment. I’m really looking for hints and tips to overcome basic human frailties, rather than a personality diagnosis.
jamesg46
Posts: 3769
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

JasBarrow wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:17 pm
jamesg46 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:44 pm
Yes I know, I never said they weren't. That's your interpretation of what I said.
I dont think its my interpretation of what was said its all there in black and white.

You made a statement, you were challenged on the statement, you then backtracked on the statement because it was challenged and finally say its my interpretation of the statement(s) thats off.

Anyway sorry to everyone else for hijacking the thread, my bad guys
Please quote where I said DID wasn't multiple distinct personalities. Personally I didnt see it as a challenge, more of a discussion but whatever, I guess that is your interpretation too.
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darchas
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zippus wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:19 pm
darchas wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:53 pm
I think some of the above discussion might be better off in its own thread or maybe over DM. I do think it's good that threads can go off on interesting tangents at times, but they should at least be semi-related/something that might be of use to the original poster and/or a user that might be interested in the topic.
Yeah I do agree, without wanting to be disrespectful to those that have taken the time to comment. I’m really looking for hints and tips to overcome basic human frailties, rather than a personality diagnosis.
One thing that is absolutely imperative for a start is recording your results - and I mean ALL your results trading/betting. For a long time I had a decent bread and butter approach but I'd completely let myself down with FOMO (fear of missing out) on all sorts of random bets/trades. These were things I'd just come across on forums or just a bet here and there, nothing to do with my trading. And I'd lose and sigh and my spreadsheet looked good but my betfair p&l wouldn't lie. So I made sure to start logging absolutely everything. Being 100% honest with yourself ref your staking mistakes and any lack of impulse control is the first step. Once I began to log my punts as well as my 'bread and butter' trades my discipline improved. I also did a write up of every trade I did, I trade football and I'd do a write up of each move. And this was a big help too. Because on my 'punts' I'd have to log this on the sheet and write what I did and that was painful, rather than sweeping it under the carpet. And so now I'm so much better at it and these punts are now few and far between. And if and when it does happen it's so painful to have to log it on the sheet that I'd much rather avoid it in the first place!
Trader Pat
Posts: 4327
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

zippus wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:19 pm
darchas wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:53 pm
I think some of the above discussion might be better off in its own thread or maybe over DM. I do think it's good that threads can go off on interesting tangents at times, but they should at least be semi-related/something that might be of use to the original poster and/or a user that might be interested in the topic.
Yeah I do agree, without wanting to be disrespectful to those that have taken the time to comment. I’m really looking for hints and tips to overcome basic human frailties, rather than a personality diagnosis.
That's just how the forum rolls sometimes. You ask a question that may never get answered but you'll be enlightened by the journey that the thread of said unanswered question takes you on! :D

To answer your question though what you're experiencing isn't unique lots of us have gone through similiar and there isn't a one solution fits all answer. For me is was overstaking which led to all the usual pitfalls of chasing losses and going in play just because I wasn't comfortable with the stakes I was using.

Maybe reduce stakes and see if it makes any difference to your strike rate.
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jimibt
Posts: 3641
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Location: Narnia

Trader Pat wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:36 pm
zippus wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:19 pm
darchas wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:53 pm
I think some of the above discussion might be better off in its own thread or maybe over DM. I do think it's good that threads can go off on interesting tangents at times, but they should at least be semi-related/something that might be of use to the original poster and/or a user that might be interested in the topic.
Yeah I do agree, without wanting to be disrespectful to those that have taken the time to comment. I’m really looking for hints and tips to overcome basic human frailties, rather than a personality diagnosis.
That's just how the forum rolls sometimes. You ask a question that may never get answered but you'll be enlightened by the journey that the thread of said unanswered question takes you on! :D

To answer your question though what you're experiencing isn't unique lots of us have gone through similiar and there isn't a one solution fits all answer. For me is was overstaking which led to all the usual pitfalls of chasing losses and going in play just because I wasn't comfortable with the stakes I was using.

Maybe reduce stakes and see if it makes any difference to your strike rate.

i have found that starting at a grindingly low stake and learning to accept small wins and losses really helps when you slowly ramp up the staking. i'm inclined to slowly build staking (especially in new strategies) so that a losing day doesn't impact the bank hugely. i will typically start from pretty much minimum stakes and build it over the corse of xx weeks (or whatever timescale is required to make things feel secure).

of course, sometimes i will pretty much dive in on less modest stakes when my confidence level is high and patience is low :D
Mr.Teeny
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:18 am

zippus wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:19 pm
darchas wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:53 pm
I think some of the above discussion might be better off in its own thread or maybe over DM. I do think it's good that threads can go off on interesting tangents at times, but they should at least be semi-related/something that might be of use to the original poster and/or a user that might be interested in the topic.
Yeah I do agree, without wanting to be disrespectful to those that have taken the time to comment. I’m really looking for hints and tips to overcome basic human frailties, rather than a personality diagnosis.

Best way to stop chasing and blowing banks etc is to start winning. It’s a lot easier to remain disciplined and to stick to your strategy/ plan if you are winning.

The easiest way to start winning is to lower your stakes right down to a level where you can trade in and out as you please , without feeling uncomfortable if a trade starts to move against you. Then build back up from there. Building both your bank, and your confidence to up your stakes again.

The trouble with chasing and losing is that you can only feel the pain in the present. When you chase and end up losing everything it can feel as if your world has ended. It’s so bad that you swear you will never do it again. However, a few weeks down the line, when presented with another similar scenario, the pain has gone, and the temptation to chase instead of take the losses is right back with you.

The other trouble with chasing is that sometimes you win. If you were guaranteed to lose every time you chased then nobody would do it. Trouble is often you win. In fact you probably win a lot more often than you lose, however those times are easily forgot about, or sometimes even put down as being a shrewd play. Ie “ market got it wrong “, “ market was crazy” , you can almost justify not taking the loss.

But every once in a while, one bet leads to another, and when luck finally catches up with you, the bank is blown, and you are left with that empty feeling, that numb feeling you get when you do the lot in. That’s when you decide it was the wrong thing to do, and vow never to do it again.

It’s the worst feeling in the world, however, it passes. On the flip side of that, I probably shouldn’t admit it, though that feeling of relief you get when you’ve been on the chase and finally get that winner that puts you back level, that’s one of the best feelings ever !
rik
Posts: 1583
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:16 am
Location: London

you would think the hard part is judging whether a price is too high or low
apparently its this discipline nonsense
dont bet if your not at advantage its as simple as that.
i understand if you struggle to learn programming or design some complicated models but only betting to a plan and at advantage is basics and everyone that wants to be serious can do it
90% of people with this issues are just not conifdent in their edge or want it to be bigger so they add some variance hoping to get lucky
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ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Mr.Teeny wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:00 pm
Best way to stop chasing and blowing banks etc is to start winning. It’s a lot easier to remain disciplined and to stick to your strategy/ plan if you are winning.
Catch-22 init. You only become relaxed about losing when you know you'll get it back, but you won't get it back until you become relaxed about losing.

How about keeping a seperate tally of losses you know were your fault and those where you did your best but it just didn't work out? If the second number isn't too bad then it might give you the strength to reduce the first. But if it's crap then you're wasting your time working on 'you' and just being deluded by the "i'd be great if I didn't keep losing" fallacy.

Have you got anyone who could sit and watch you trade? Being a dick on your own is a lot easier than being a dick when someone is watching and you're talking them through it. :oops:
Anbell
Posts: 2004
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:31 am

Trader724 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:42 am
Okay, on principle it's not stupid if it works. Nothing to add.
The importance of checklists is well documented
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/ ... hecklists/

Sticky notes are just a way of highlighting one or two or three items on a checklist.

We all hope to perform like a swiss watch, but we all have ROI leaks as well, and it helps to have a reminder to yourself that even though a particular set-up looks +ve, the pnl over time shows it is leaky, and therefore dont touch, or reduce stakes, or whatever.
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Trader724
Posts: 559
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:22 pm

A checklist makes sense when there is a lot to do and you may forget something. You don't go in-play because you forgot you don't have to do that, the reason is lack of discipline. If a sticky note helps your discipline it's ok, whatever works for you, I've seen some weirder sh*t. There are things you have to do without hesitation (for example, when driving) and things you don't have to do under any circumstances both in life and in a certain field. They are so important that there is no point in writing them down and looking at them. Do you need a sticky note to remind you not to kill someone you hate? When you are not disciplined, you humiliate yourself and maybe it is better to write a big L on a sticky note and stick it on your forehead, you will certainly not need it after a while.
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