When to know if it’s time to quit...

Trading is often about how to take the appropriate risk without exposing yourself to very human flaws.
JasBarrow
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:03 pm

JasBarrow wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:34 pm
You have Dissociative Identity Disorder?
jamesg46 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:02 pm
I do have alters. When I look around and watch peoples behaviour it's rare to find someone who doesn't. Confrontational situations usually highlight them well, peoples personalities suddenly become like chameleons, they sink into their immediate surrounding trying to find common ground with their supportive tribe, someone can go from Alpha to pack member in a matter of seconds.
Sorry man I dont mean to labor the point but you either have DID or you don't? It's sometihng you have to be diagnosed with.

Please feel free to tell me to mind my business and I wont be offended, I have a close friend who has DID so your post caught my attention.
jamesg46
Posts: 3769
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

JasBarrow wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:51 pm
JasBarrow wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:34 pm
You have Dissociative Identity Disorder?
jamesg46 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:02 pm
I do have alters. When I look around and watch peoples behaviour it's rare to find someone who doesn't. Confrontational situations usually highlight them well, peoples personalities suddenly become like chameleons, they sink into their immediate surrounding trying to find common ground with their supportive tribe, someone can go from Alpha to pack member in a matter of seconds.
Sorry man I dont mean to labor the point but you either have DID or you don't? It's sometihng you have to be diagnosed with.

Please feel free to tell me to mind my business and I wont be offended, I have a close friend who has DID so your post caught my attention.
My point was that I recognise my personality alters... & that "I think" most people live through life with some form of DID "without being concious of it".

You can be concious of altering personalities without a diagnosis, such as my passive aggressive personality, which was pointed out in this forum.

Personalities alter, that's probably why it's a good idea to take a walk to regain yourself after a bad loss. Or why the saying surround yourself with the people you want to become exists.

The theory that you have to be diagnosed is strange, people have cancer before they're diagnosed. The diagnosis is simply someone else making you aware of it.

I would imagine that it varys in severity and some people suffer negatively from it & others don't. Personalities can go both ways, I just think it's a good idea to Vlog and keep track, I'm not making any wild claims of me being personally affected, just that my personality alters and I think a lot of people have DID in some form or another,.diagnosed or not.
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LeTiss
Posts: 5386
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:04 pm

One piece of advice I'll give that helped with my demons, was to stake by 'tick size'

I found I was ruining good work by overstaking, and would also get nervous when I had large amounts in the market
Nervousness and a lack of confidence is a disaster in trading......you get bullied and you take greens too soon

By dealing in tick sizes, I found my emotions were detached from the money. I fancied my chances of getting more green ticks than red ticks, and so it made it easier to trade out for occasional losers without letting my disappointment override common sense.
zippus
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:19 pm

LeTiss wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:20 pm
One piece of advice I'll give that helped with my demons, was to stake by 'tick size'

I found I was ruining good work by overstaking, and would also get nervous when I had large amounts in the market
Nervousness and a lack of confidence is a disaster in trading......you get bullied and you take greens too soon

By dealing in tick sizes, I found my emotions were detached from the money. I fancied my chances of getting more green ticks than red ticks, and so it made it easier to trade out for occasional losers without letting my disappointment override common sense.
That's great advice - much appreciated. Just so I understand. Would you stake more or less at lower odds? Doesn't that depend on whether your opening trade is a back or a lay bet? For example, I never mind going in heavier with lay bets at shorter odds (if I think the price is likely to rise again) but I don't like laying if the price is higher. [Obviously the reverse is true if you open at higher odds with a back bet thinking the price is likely to fall].
JasBarrow
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:03 pm

JasBarrow wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:51 pm
Sorry man I dont mean to labor the point but you either have DID or you don't? It's sometihng you have to be diagnosed with.

Please feel free to tell me to mind my business and I wont be offended, I have a close friend who has DID so your post caught my attention.
jamesg46 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:17 pm
My point was that I recognise my personality alters... & that "I think" most people live through life with some form of DID "without being concious of it".

You can be concious of altering personalities without a diagnosis, such as my passive aggressive personality, which was pointed out in this forum.

Personalities alter, that's probably why it's a good idea to take a walk to regain yourself after a bad loss. Or why the saying surround yourself with the people you want to become exists.

The theory that you have to be diagnosed is strange, people have cancer before they're diagnosed. The diagnosis is simply someone else making you aware of it.

I would imagine that it varys in severity and some people suffer negatively from it & others don't. Personalities can go both ways, I just think it's a good idea to Vlog and keep track, I'm not making any wild claims of me being personally affected, just that my personality alters and I think a lot of people have DID in some form or another,.diagnosed or not.

Ok man thanks for explaining but I have to completely disagree with you. What your describing is fairly normal for most people, most of us will adjust our 'personality' depending on who we're speaking to and the situation we find ourselves in so comparing that to DID (also known as multiple personality disorder) makes no sense at all.
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ShaunWhite
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zippus wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:27 pm
Would you stake more or less at lower odds?
Whatever side you start on and what ever price it is, a tick should be approx the same cash amount*. Ages since I traded manually but I think the defualt staking would be "By liability, back or lay". That way your result is a product of your ability to gain or lose ticks, not randomly based on whatever prices or stakes you happened to use that day.

Until you start to see a profit it's best to try and see your bank as the amount you plan to spend this week/month, like paying your subs to a snooker club or something....then just make it last as long as you can. Most importantly, when it's gone it's gone and you wait until next week/month to top up. If you can just keep topping up whenever you want it's meaningless, so cause yourself some pain by having to wait a few days. Control that yourself though rather than through account self restrictions because that's a pain to shift once you've alerted them to the fact you can't trust yourself.

Staking generally, it's like poker....small enough that it doesn't hurt too much but big enough for it to hurt a bit. It needs to matter but not so much it messes with your head and how much that is depends on your personal circumstances.

* Tons of caveats obvioulsy but as a rough rule initially.
jamesg46
Posts: 3769
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

JasBarrow wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:49 pm
JasBarrow wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:51 pm
Sorry man I dont mean to labor the point but you either have DID or you don't? It's sometihng you have to be diagnosed with.

Please feel free to tell me to mind my business and I wont be offended, I have a close friend who has DID so your post caught my attention.
jamesg46 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:17 pm
My point was that I recognise my personality alters... & that "I think" most people live through life with some form of DID "without being concious of it".

You can be concious of altering personalities without a diagnosis, such as my passive aggressive personality, which was pointed out in this forum.

Personalities alter, that's probably why it's a good idea to take a walk to regain yourself after a bad loss. Or why the saying surround yourself with the people you want to become exists.

The theory that you have to be diagnosed is strange, people have cancer before they're diagnosed. The diagnosis is simply someone else making you aware of it.

I would imagine that it varys in severity and some people suffer negatively from it & others don't. Personalities can go both ways, I just think it's a good idea to Vlog and keep track, I'm not making any wild claims of me being personally affected, just that my personality alters and I think a lot of people have DID in some form or another,.diagnosed or not.

Ok man thanks for explaining but I have to completely disagree with you. What your describing is fairly normal for most people, most of us will adjust our 'personality' depending on who we're speaking to and the situation we find ourselves in so comparing that to DID (also known as multiple personality disorder) makes no sense at all.
Ok. Altering a personality from one to another calculates to more than 1 personality imo. The degree to which it's done and the severity of the cause I'll leave to the experts. That's why I used the words one form or another... maybe I should of said to some degree.

I don't believe people adjust personalities, like in a way that they have some sort of dial that adjusts them to a fixed setting over a set period of time that they can control, but that's my opinion and I'm no expert.

You're obviously a lot closer to the reality of DID than I am & know first hand the effects it has on your friend. My theory (which I'm no expert) is the effects can be highly variable, so your friend may have an extreme set of personalities where others may be mild, I don't know.

The causes aren't well known https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/condit ... disorders/
this link is for others, not you... I'm sure you're well aware. So from a cause/effect perspective who knows how variable the effects are.

Anyway, if anything our discussion may have raised awareness a little, I wish you and your friend well.
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The Silk Run
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Location: United Kingdom

Hi Hi Zippus
Consider reducing your staking to the bare minimum, sensible. You will be surprised on the positive emotional effect it has on your works long term ...

Happy Easter
Minnie LAI
JasBarrow
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:03 pm

JasBarrow wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:51 pm
Ok man thanks for explaining but I have to completely disagree with you. What your describing is fairly normal for most people, most of us will adjust our 'personality' depending on who we're speaking to and the situation we find ourselves in so comparing that to DID (also known as multiple personality disorder) makes no sense at all.
jamesg46 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:45 pm
Ok. Altering a personality from one to another calculates to more than 1 personality imo.
This is where your logic falls down and its a really important point to emphasise. Personalities can change over time through life experience or a trauma or some kind of life changing event but its still just an evolution of the same single personality. Altering a personality doesnt create new versions of self.

DID is the existence of multiple distinct personalities which are completely separate entities.
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darchas
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:55 pm

zippus wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:22 pm
jamesg46 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:33 pm
If you're asking how to know when then I genuinely don't think you're ready to quit.

Join the list for people doing dumb shit, a lot of us have been there.

Sticky notes are a great idea. Also I make a short Vlog at the end of every session to play back before the start of the next that briefly explains what I did good, the stupid things I've done & what I'd like to improve on.

I almost manage my emotions with a 3rd personality these days. Maybe plasticity will make it all autopilot one day but I think there is a real good reason why people Vlog and record their screens.

Cheers. The Vlog is an interesting idea. Will give it ago. I just have two personalities - the sensible, cautious one when things are on track; the second is the stubborn, impatient muppet that appears when things don't go to plan. (Having an entry / exit strategy that I stick to and automation will hopefully keep the muppet at bay).
Just following on from the vlog idea, it can be really useful to record yourself trading and talk outloud through every decision. It helps focus the mind and because you're actively vocalising the reason for your moves helps highlight any gaps in your thinking. Also useful to look back over your session.
jamesg46
Posts: 3769
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

JasBarrow wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:11 pm
JasBarrow wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:51 pm
Ok man thanks for explaining but I have to completely disagree with you. What your describing is fairly normal for most people, most of us will adjust our 'personality' depending on who we're speaking to and the situation we find ourselves in so comparing that to DID (also known as multiple personality disorder) makes no sense at all.
jamesg46 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:45 pm
Ok. Altering a personality from one to another calculates to more than 1 personality imo.
This is where your logic falls down and its a really important point to emphasise. Personalities can change over time through life experience or a trauma or some kind of life changing event but its still just an evolution of the same single personality. Altering a personality doesnt create new versions of self.

DID is the existence of multiple distinct personalities which are completely separate entities.
Yes I know, I never said they weren't. That's your interpretation of what I said. I don't think that people with DID jump from one created personality to another, like some sort of space hoppers, continually forming new personalities.

You said it is also called multiple personality disorder. My comment to which your reply is about was pointing out to you that altering from one personality to another calculates to more than one personality... multiple personality disorder.

Take care.
Last edited by jamesg46 on Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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darchas
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:55 pm

I think some of the above discussion might be better off in its own thread or maybe over DM. I do think it's good that threads can go off on interesting tangents at times, but they should at least be semi-related/something that might be of use to the original poster and/or a user that might be interested in the topic.
jamesg46
Posts: 3769
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:05 pm

darchas wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:53 pm
I think some of the above discussion might be better off in its own thread or maybe over DM. I do think it's good that threads can go off on interesting tangents at times, but they should at least be semi-related/something that might be of use to the original poster and/or a user that might be interested in the topic.
Being self aware is pretty relevant.
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ODPaul82
Posts: 683
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 6:32 am
Location: Digswell Herts

I have an A5 piece of paper taped to just above one monitor and an A4 to another, both of which are at near enough eye level.

The A5 contains
  • Do the research
    Keep to staking plan
    Follow my flowchart (its for tennis so have an internal flowchart of what to do in situations)
    Wait for the liquidity
    Lost a trade? There's 1000s a year
The A4 sheet is print outs from my P&L of my big losses with red pen in big letters reminding myself how I screwed up.
Use both as my prompts and guidance
JasBarrow
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:03 pm

jamesg46 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:44 pm
Yes I know, I never said they weren't. That's your interpretation of what I said.
I dont think its my interpretation of what was said its all there in black and white.

You made a statement, you were challenged on the statement, you then backtracked on the statement because it was challenged and finally say its my interpretation of the statement(s) thats off.

Anyway sorry to everyone else for hijacking the thread, my bad guys
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