Advice, Suggestions

Trading is often about how to take the appropriate risk without exposing yourself to very human flaws.
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andy28
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:06 am
Location: NZ

gazuty wrote:
Thu Dec 23, 2021 5:05 am
When you make a bad (initial trade) and suffer a loss, that is it, close that particular market and move on (for your $11 loss) and put it out of your mind. It is of no consequence to you. You are a profitable trader (overall), losses are to be expected. Move along (or sing the song - Let it Go, the cold/loss never bothered you anyway).

That is the mindset you need. Train and master your mind.

How to do it - practice, practice, pracitce. Go to the gym of the mind. You make a loss, move on, you make a profit, move on. Let each invdivual event go - it is of no consequence to you.

(That is why for me, automation is king, it doesn't care about the last market or the next market, automation has no feelings and does not need to make up any losses).
I know exactly what you mean, I was playing golf with a guy that sliced the ball into the trees, the other guys were saying to play all sorts of aggressive (trick) shots. He calmly chipped the ball back onto the fairway, they said he was a coward, but he said if I did what you guys said I would be in the trees on the other side of the fairway. He said once he was in the trees there was nothing he could about that, the only thing he could do was play the smart game and set himself for the next shot.

I would love to get Automation going but I am a lot closer to the caveman than you are if you get my drift ;) ;)
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alexmr2
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It's disheartening when the occassional mistake sets you back but not the end of the world if you deal with it reasonably well, your long-term P&L should look positive like it's no big deal. Try and see if you can think of a way to avoid it happening again.

If you chase the loss and go on the tilt it can decimate your monthly P&L but if you walk away and accept that losing day then you can still be up by the end of the week by sticking to your plan.

Also sometimes it's unavoidable but it's not good to have doubters in the back of your mind when trading because subconsciously your ego can become desperate for wins to prove them wrong which could mean your trading will suffer from being more loss averse or taking bigger risks etc.
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ShaunWhite
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Next time you sit at your desk don't picture yourself as someone who's learning to trade, picture yourself as someone who is trading. Beginners can try and tilt their way out of trouble or let a big loss run, but when you're actually doing this you have face up to the difficult things. It's no different to when you have any other job, sometimes it's fine, sometimes you have to do the hard/boring or difficult things. And when you do, or walk away after a rubbish day, then that's just what the job is, so embrace it rather than being bothered by it.

...I'm glad people on here aren't learning to be brain surgeons, "I'm fine for a week or two and then one day I just find myself slashing around with the scalpel". :shock:
andy28
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Location: NZ

ShaunWhite wrote:
Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:49 am
Next time you sit at your desk don't picture yourself as someone who's learning to trade, picture yourself as someone who is trading. Beginners can try and tilt their way out of trouble or let a big loss run, but when you're actually doing this you have face up to the difficult things. It's no different to when you have any other job, sometimes it's fine, sometimes you have to do the hard/boring or difficult things. And when you do, or walk away after a rubbish day, then that's just what the job is, so embrace it rather than being bothered by it.

...I'm glad people on here aren't learning to be brain surgeons, "I'm fine for a week or two and then one day I just find myself slashing around with the scalpel". :shock:
You are right, I have to accept there will be bad days and good days.

After watching video's/reading up on emotions I think my problem is I am risk adverse, hence why I will take a small profit over letting the trade go if all the signals are still in my favour. So I have some stuff to watch for and ways to control it when it does happen.

Thanks again All
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jamesedwards
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Someone on this very forum once said that the difference between a good and bad trader is how you handle a screen full of red.

I STILL struggle with this part of my game even 3 years into full-time professional trading.

I can feel a New Year's Resolution coming on...
andy28
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:06 am
Location: NZ

jamesedwards wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 5:44 pm
Someone on this very forum once said that the difference between a good and bad trader is how you handle a screen full of red.

I STILL struggle with this part of my game even 3 years into full-time professional trading.

I can feel a New Year's Resolution coming on...
Very true
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ShaunWhite
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When this topic comes up there's often quite a few mentions of the word 'bank'. But after all these years I still don't understand what that actually means :?: Is it the money in your main wallet, the money in your Betfair account or your total working capital across all accounts? Or is it the total you plan to invest in trying to learn to trade, or your entire net worth? It seems to be used to describe a random amount people just happen to have in their account, which they top up anyway rather than quitting when it's gone.
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ShaunWhite
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jamesedwards wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 5:44 pm
Someone on this very forum once said that the difference between a good and bad trader is how you handle a screen full of red.
I think that comes down to self perception. If you see yourself as a gambler winging it then it stings, if you see yourself as a businessman then you're 100% ok with the idea that on days when nobody comes into the shop, you're still paying your overheads. What a gambler would call red days. And some days the only people coming in are ones that want a refund from money you thought you'd made yesterday! No big deal though if you're ok at the month end.

The red screens, software subs, vps costs, biscuits blah blah blah are just the normal cost of doing business, so focus on making enough to cover them, and make a bit extra.

Must be about 5yrs ago when LeTiss gave me some advice that stuck...to paraphrase, always mentally put part of you winings in a jar that's to pay for losers. If you never had it it's not so hard to give it back. When you win £1 you keep 50p and you've got 50p to burn on losers and just trying stuff.
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Kai
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:44 pm
When this topic comes up there's often quite a few mentions of the word 'bank'. But after all these years I still don't understand what that actually means :?: Is it the money in your main wallet, the money in your Betfair account or your total working capital across all accounts? Or is it the total you plan to invest in trying to learn to trade, or your entire net worth? It seems to be used to describe a random amount people just happen to have in their account, which they top up anyway rather than quitting when it's gone.
Unless that's a rhetorical question Shaun it's just the amount set aside for trading or for a particular strategy etc.
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ShaunWhite
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Kai wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:01 pm
Unless that's a rhetorical question Shaun it's just the amount set aside for trading or for a particular strategy etc.
You know I'm a pedantic sob ;) 57yo outside and 8yo inside.
lol I remember being a kid and my dear old dad always saying "for god sake boy can you shut up for a minute or two, you ever stop asking questions!"
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Kai
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:00 pm
jamesedwards wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 5:44 pm
Someone on this very forum once said that the difference between a good and bad trader is how you handle a screen full of red.
I think that comes down to self perception. If you see yourself as a gambler winging it then it stings, if you see yourself as a businessman then you're 100% ok with the idea that on days when nobody comes into the shop, you're still paying your overheads. What a gambler would call red days. And some days the only people coming in are ones that want a refund from money you thought you'd made yesterday! No big deal though if you're ok at the month end.

The red screens, software subs, vps costs, biscuits blah blah blah are just the normal cost of doing business, so focus on making enough to cover them, and make a bit extra.
I'm glad the cold business approach is working for you Shaun, but the cold reality for most traders is very different because we all try to personalize just about everything, from individual trades where we think the market is after us to random comments/posts/questions where we think everything could be a personal jibe and so on.

It is easier to distance yourself and think of it all as a business when you're not chasing prices around with the mouse yourself and don't have to go through the emotions on most markets. As exciting as trading sessions can be they can also be mentally taxing when not going fully as planned, so it's not a big surprise when banks get blown in a moment of madness as those moments have probably been building for a while.
Emmson
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So we have learned that too much emotion in trading is a bad thing. We also know you need some level of emotion or else you won’t function. That is why my first advice was to enjoy it! We also know that despite the brain being a powerful thing it can be easily distracted; we’re not great at multitasking!

So why does this affect out trading? Well, too much emotion will shut down higher brain function and you will not be able to think straight. You’ll be totally reliant on conscious competence and a reduced level of thought. That is not good if you’re a new or novice trader and that is where mistakes kick in and hurt you. Once you get past your emotional threshold then you are in trouble as it is almost impossible to function at that stage.

So what do we do? Well first you have to be honest with yourself and identify your issue. Then you need separation i.e. counting deep breaths to bring your emotion levels down enough so you can stop crossing the threshold. You may want to go for a walk or grab a drink of tea.

Then you need to inject some logic, perhaps have a motivational quote pinned to your monitor? It should be something which works for you. You could consider a picture of a loved one or a favourite place that helps you to refocus on the task.

The most important thing in all of this is you must try and concentrate on the now! Forget what has happened, do not think about what might happen as both of these will distract you and eat up brain power. You cannot change the past and you cannot affect the future so do not waste energy on it.

We know the brain can easily be overwhelmed by thoughts – positive and negative so we must solely concentrate on what we are doing without introducing any other thought. That is why having your phone on or answering emails is a big no-no!! I want to share a funny story with you to help explain how negative thoughts can take over. This is a true story and I learned a lot from what happened.

About 25 years ago a member of my family was rushed into hospital. She was in danger of losing her baby with 9 weeks still remaining on the pregnancy. It was 23:00 and I had just returned from the pub. I was asked by my uncle if I would go with him for moral support and naturally I said yes. We had to drive to Bristol, well he did, as I had been drinking! I then sat in a waiting room for hours. There was one other person in there with me, a lady in her 60s at a guess. I had been trying to talk to her and get some form of conversation going for hours and she just kept ignoring me. I was cursing her ignorance and getting really angry with her. Then at about 03:00 we were both stood by the vending machine and she accidentally bumped into me. I was already angry and was about to let rip when she said “I’m sorry love for not speaking, I am totally deaf and unless I can see your lips moving I cannot make out what you’re saying!” I felt such an idiot, all those hours of anger and hatred directed towards her and all the time she couldn’t hear me anyway!

The mind can run away with you if you’re not careful so stay in the now and don’t make judgements as they often let you down or make you look like a fool.


JollyGreen

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8319&p=66440&hilit=emotion#p66440
Emmson
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Amygdala Hijack

is not phrase I've seen on this forum but its interesting when you delve. I'm currently going to school on the phenomenon.
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ShaunWhite
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Kai wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:42 pm
I'm glad the cold business approach is working for you Shaun, but the cold reality for most traders is very different because we all try to personalize just about everything, from individual trades where we think the market is after us to random comments/posts/questions where we think everything could be a personal jibe and so on. .
What you describe is familiar but it's an unhealthy state of mind. I'm a big fan of a workaround so rather than trying to conquer the psychology I prefer to rationalise the process and trivialise it. The psych side isn't just a manual traders issue, automating is just as mentally tough too but just on a different plane. Your pains can be cured in the next 10mins.. working for months on something that fails and then it being months before you can try again is tough too. Its like manual trading in bullet time. ;)
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Kai
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Yep, EQ over IQ for sure when manually trading
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