Can I Place a Betfair SP Bet?

Advanced automation available in Guardian - Chat with others and share files here.
User avatar
firlandsfarm
Posts: 2688
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 8:20 am

Thanks for the sudden rush of support for this guys … come on BA as I've said before is it really that difficult to simply align with a Bf facility that's been around for over 10 years!
User avatar
ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

weemac wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 5:21 pm
If this does get implemented, maximum and minimum odds should be able to be set against both backs and lays.
You can only set one limit on SP bets and it works as lower limit for backs and upper limit for lays. Plus with SP bets you can't cancel them, and you can only amend your limit price in one direction so that you can't effectively cancel them. They're not quite as straightforward to implement as it seems at first.
weemac
Posts: 1216
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:16 pm

Yes, I posted as much on the other new SP thread. I'd sometimes like to back at SP if the price isn't too high, but it isn't do-able.
User avatar
firlandsfarm
Posts: 2688
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 8:20 am

ShaunWhite wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:24 pm
You can only set one limit on SP bets and it works as lower limit for backs and upper limit for lays. Plus with SP bets you can't cancel them, and you can only amend your limit price in one direction so that you can't effectively cancel them. They're not quite as straightforward to implement as it seems at first.
I agree with your correction re limits Shaun but assuming the API allows access to setting a BSP bet (and from my use of another BOT it does) it would be as straightforward as setting a BSP bet in the website. The odds limits are optional. Many people bet to BSP. I have systems that work around BSP so for purity of research I want to bet to BSP. Cancellation is not really a problem, they are as cancellable as a matched bet or just leave placing until a few seconds before the Off.
User avatar
jimibt
Posts: 3641
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:42 pm
Location: Narnia

I was going to post a new topic on the suggestions area re this but thought it worth necro-posting here as there's a lot of discussion to clarify exactly why Limit SP is a great idea.

I may be wrong, but the Take SP Unmatched Bets on Selection (Price Dependent) appears to Take SP based on the current price being close to BSP, rather than using the betfair Limit SP functionality - I may be wrong tho!!

So, would like to add support to this idea as a feature enhancement on BA. and btw -thanks for the new 1.56 beta, excellent bunch of new features!!
Anbell
Posts: 2004
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:31 am

jimibt wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:13 am
I may be wrong, but the Take SP Unmatched Bets on Selection (Price Dependent) appears to Take SP based on the current price being close to BSP, rather than using the betfair Limit SP functionality - I may be wrong tho!!
This is correct.

+1 for me for being able to place BSP Limit bets
sniffer66
Posts: 1666
Joined: Thu May 02, 2019 8:37 am

And a +1 from me on placing Limit BSP Bets also
benjay
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:15 pm

Hi,

I'm looking at downloading Bet Angel with a view to backing/laying based on BSP. I am a complete novice so excuse my ignorance and hoping this is the right thread. Can a rule be created to back/lay a horse based on BSP? I can't quite put my finger on how to do it from the videos I've watched. My main query on the automation function is that as we know hardly any races go off on the dot and therefore the price at the (advertised) off time will differ from the actual BSP. Any help is much appreciated.

TIA
User avatar
Dallas
Posts: 22674
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:57 pm
Location: Working From Home

benjay wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:26 pm
Hi,

I'm looking at downloading Bet Angel with a view to backing/laying based on BSP. I am a complete novice so excuse my ignorance and hoping this is the right thread. Can a rule be created to back/lay a horse based on BSP? I can't quite put my finger on how to do it from the videos I've watched. My main query on the automation function is that as we know hardly any races go off on the dot and therefore the price at the (advertised) off time will differ from the actual BSP. Any help is much appreciated.

TIA
Its not clear if you mean backing/laying at the BSP once the race is in play
Or placing the bets pre-off to be taken BSP when BF reconciles them?
Anbell
Posts: 2004
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:31 am

benjay wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:26 pm
Hi,

I'm looking at downloading Bet Angel with a view to backing/laying based on BSP. I am a complete novice so excuse my ignorance and hoping this is the right thread. Can a rule be created to back/lay a horse based on BSP? I can't quite put my finger on how to do it from the videos I've watched. My main query on the automation function is that as we know hardly any races go off on the dot and therefore the price at the (advertised) off time will differ from the actual BSP. Any help is much appreciated.

TIA
You can place a bet at BSP before the race by placing the bet and then ordering TakeSP
User avatar
firlandsfarm
Posts: 2688
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 8:20 am

Anbell wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:57 pm
You can place a bet at BSP before the race by placing the bet and then ordering TakeSP
Yes but to clarify the position that just converts your risk (the stake for a back bet and the liability for a lay bet) into an SP bet so while OK for a back bet it fails for a lay bet if you are betting by stake amount, the stake will be reduced to maintain the same liability. As you know it's not the same as placing a direct SP bet where you can set odds limits and control the stake amount.
benjay
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:15 pm

Dallas wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:55 pm
benjay wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:26 pm
Hi,

I'm looking at downloading Bet Angel with a view to backing/laying based on BSP. I am a complete novice so excuse my ignorance and hoping this is the right thread. Can a rule be created to back/lay a horse based on BSP? I can't quite put my finger on how to do it from the videos I've watched. My main query on the automation function is that as we know hardly any races go off on the dot and therefore the price at the (advertised) off time will differ from the actual BSP. Any help is much appreciated.

TIA
Its not clear if you mean backing/laying at the BSP once the race is in play
Or placing the bets pre-off to be taken BSP when BF reconciles them?
Thanks for everyones replies. I am just wanting to back/lay a horse at BSP so I think that relates to your second point. I think I've seen on this thread that you can create a rule that uses Back @ 1000 and Lay @1.01 and then Take SP function if unmatched. I would also want to apply this to a selection i.e specific horse, by row index, by position etc. Would this work?
User avatar
firlandsfarm
Posts: 2688
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 8:20 am

benjay wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:03 am
... Back @ 1000 and Lay @1.01 and then Take SP function if unmatched ... Would this work?
Maybe Yes for Backing but Maybe Not for Laying. My experience is that when allocating BSP to "take BSP" bets rather than "directly requested" BSP bets is that I think they start allocating to bets where the requested odd of the unmatched bet is closest to the calculated BSP. Not all "take BSP" bets are matched. So taking BSP on a 1000.00 odd unmatched bet on the favourite at 2.00 will probably not be matched (and I think in that situation it would be fair for Bf to say the differential in the odds was such that swapping it for a BSP match was not credible).

Laying is a different situation. Firstly as I understand it the liability has to be at least £10 so a bet of £100 @ 1.01 would not be included in the "take BSP" computation at the off. And, Bf will match your unmatched bet to BSP for the same liability. So if you had an unmatched bet of £1000 @ 1.01 the liability is £10. If the BSP is 10.00 the unmatched bet would be matched at BSP for a stake of £1! If you wanted a liability of £100 maybe you could place a bet of £10,000 @ 1.01 and see how that goes, I've never tried it.

Another downside of "take BSP" is that you cannot fix min and max odds ... you just have to take whatever transpires in accordance with the above explanation (if correct).

I do not consider myself an expert on the intricacies of converting unmatched bets to BSP so would welcome any corrections to that but this is why I first raised the issue of BA not offering to place bets directly at BSP.. Take BSP is not a substitute.
User avatar
jimibt
Posts: 3641
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:42 pm
Location: Narnia

firlandsfarm wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:33 am
benjay wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:03 am
... Back @ 1000 and Lay @1.01 and then Take SP function if unmatched ... Would this work?
Another downside of "take BSP" is that you cannot fix min and max odds ... you just have to take whatever transpires in accordance with the above explanation (if correct).

I do not consider myself an expert on the intricacies of converting unmatched bets to BSP so would welcome any corrections to that but this is why I first raised the issue of BA not offering to place bets directly at BSP.. Take BSP is not a substitute.
i posed the same question as a feature request a while back and was told by Devs that the SP Limit Order type would require changes to both the UI, the transaction model and the way that automation worked. in short, it's not a trivial change (despite what it may seem to *us*).

they actually are quite different when you think about the realities - min/max plus you can't cancel a sp limit order once placed. however, it's a different class to TakeSP and for strategies that rely on BSP is the only way to go.
benjay
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:15 pm

jimibt wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:59 am
firlandsfarm wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:33 am
benjay wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:03 am
... Back @ 1000 and Lay @1.01 and then Take SP function if unmatched ... Would this work?
Another downside of "take BSP" is that you cannot fix min and max odds ... you just have to take whatever transpires in accordance with the above explanation (if correct).

I do not consider myself an expert on the intricacies of converting unmatched bets to BSP so would welcome any corrections to that but this is why I first raised the issue of BA not offering to place bets directly at BSP.. Take BSP is not a substitute.
i posed the same question as a feature request a while back and was told by Devs that the SP Limit Order type would require changes to both the UI, the transaction model and the way that automation worked. in short, it's not a trivial change (despite what it may seem to *us*).

they actually are quite different when you think about the realities - min/max plus you can't cancel a sp limit order once placed. however, it's a different class to TakeSP and for strategies that rely on BSP is the only way to go.
Thanks everyone.

If anyone knows of a way/rule to help me back/lay my selection at the BSP (irrespective of price) it would be much appreciated. At the moment, I haven't even downloaded BA as still trying to source a suitable laptop that will be able to handle the software, so still need to have a practice. Apparently the best laptop would be a quadcore processor and with 8gb of RAM which is need for live trading? Could I get away with a dual core processor with 4gb of RAM for just automation bets? Would that work with live trading as wlel?
Post Reply

Return to “Bet Angel - Automation”