Greening Up is Sporadic - Lost £30 In Testing Over The Weekend

[westbamtrading]

Carried On From my Concerns Over - Close Trade Position

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=24073

PLEASE HELP

Bad news. For some reason, Greening Up or Close Position with Greening is being temperamental as to if it works or not. I've lost over £30 in testing over the weekend alone, as the free betdaq version doesn't come with a practice version - as far as I know, so i have to test with live money, but for the most part, it's not Greening Up!

Can anyone give me a simple way to green up as a scratch trade, or to catch it if it goes 'Less Than' -0.01 please, because I'm haemorrhaging money over this?

I've tried everything from Close Trade Position, to Green Up Position (in conditions), to a simple 'Green Up' rule (in General tab), but it really seems sporadic as to if it works or not!

And it's not a matter of the Green Up trade - not being matched. In cases that I've watched live, It goes beyond the 'Less Than' minus price, with no Green Up trade going in at all … which I set @ -0.15, but it's going way beyond that, and If I don't watch it, I lose my entire stake!

[Dallas]

It's Pretty much what's been covered in that thread already by Shaun and your own observations and detailed in this post
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=11488

Or if you are trading multiple selections and want to green them up individually instead of using the 'Green All' rule and condition you can use 'Close Trade on Selection with Greening' and 'Close Trade profit with Greening Condition'

Something to bear in mind is there is far less in-play money on the betdaq version so markets are more gappy and will jump around much more so you will find it slightly harder to get any in-play bet matched than if using Betfair.

Also ensure you are refreshing the market as fast as possible, this post shows how to ensure you do that, you'll need to ignore the part about streaming, that is only for the Betfair version, and the Betdaq can only refresh as fast as 200ms
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11491

[westbamtrading]

As I said, I've been watching some trades live, and the green up trade going in is sporadic. Sometimes it happens (@ £-0.15) and sometimes it doesn't, and i'm there watching go to -0.43, -0.68, and I'm having to close out trades manually and taking the loss. All this with plenty of volume in the market - "Good and Bad on both sides" - Donald Trump

Refresh rate, I've always got it @ 200ms and the 'Trigger Rearm' default is usually 5 secs, I've had it down to 2, but it doesn't matter. Again, sometimes it fires, sometime it doesn't. But with over £30 in loses this weekend in testing, with even more potentially, had I not stepped in and stopped the trade manually, it just defeats the whole purpose of the whole Automation thing really!

Betfair - Unfortunately I had a bad experience with Betfair when I went nearly all in on a lay trade, it won, but Betfair took it as a loss for some bizarre reason. It was no small amount of money, and this happened more than once, albeit with smaller amounts. So, after a few days of heated phone calls with them, they simply said - "It's your fault for using third party software (betangel), and our decision stands!" and so I closed my Betfair account. Given it was such a blatant win for the lay trade, and with such a large amount, I felt I had no other choice!

Dallas, as always, many thanks for your input and for taking the time to answer.

[Dallas]

If you have a 'Close Trade on Selection with Greening' rule
with a 'Close trade profit condition' is less than -0.01

and are refreshing markets individually at 200ms (ie, using restricted refresh or switching the market onto a trading screen) so you always have the most upto date information

Then the rule will trigger and send a green up order as soon as the market is refreshed and it see's your loss is -0.01 or worse (which will be about 1/5th of a second faster than a human could click the mouse to do the same thing).

It's then down to chance if the price is still available by the time your bet reaches the market which if its in-play there's also Betdaq in-play bet delay to take into consideration.

From then providing you have the rule set to rearm after say 3 secs, that allows it 1-2 secs to be matched and if not its cancelled and re-submitted at the best price

I'd suggest arming the rule to trigger at least 5 times, once the market is finished if you check the log in Guardian you should see the rule will trigger 5 times and the amount of times it actually sent a bet will be written to the log.
ie, it might take two attempts to be greened up fully and this will be in the log, but the rule will still trigger another 3 times but just not send any more bets so those last three triggers won't be in the log but will be on the automation tab at the bottom of Guardian.

If you are seeing 5 green up attempts written to the log then it means it attempted to green up 5 times but the price had moved before it was matched

[westbamtrading]

I had the rule trigger set at 10 times at 5, 3, and 2 secs.

Believe me Dallas, I've tried everything that I know, I've read the various options in the Betangel Guide - https://www.betangel.com/user-guide/clo ... rofit.html# time and time and time again. Tried the forums ... and for the life of me, I can't explain, whilst watching live, in a market with a lot of volume, why sometimes it triggers, and sometimes it doesn't.

After losing over £30 in testing, I think it's time to stop. Had I not stepped in manually, my losses would have been greater.


But again, thanks.

[Dallas]

Do you have any other conditions apart from that one 'Close trade profit condition'
Maybe upload the file and i'll take a look

If not and I assume you have the market on your screen while the rule is active which means there's no issues with refreshing then there's really no reason for it not to work, its one of the oldest and most used rules and conditions in the software for both the Betfair and Betdaq versions that is used by many users on a daily basis and is including in a lot of the example's i've posted and it's always worked fine for everyone

[westbamtrading]

It's not just Close On Trade Profit, I've tried other ways to close the trade, and it either never works, or is as equally sporadic as to whether or not it closes the trade.

I'm not specifically bothered whether it Greens or not, I just need to manage losses by closing the trade when it goes against me.

[Dallas]

It's not just Close On Trade Profit, I've tried other ways to close the trade, and it either never works, or is as equally sporadic as to whether or not it closes the trade.

I'm not specifically bothered whether it Greens or not, I just need to manage losses by closing the trade when it goes against me.

I assume you are using this on football markets as the rules are armed for 1.5hrs after they went in-play?

If so then first you'll need to use a longer re-arm time, this has to be longer than the in-play delay for whatever sport you are trading otherwise you'll be triggering a 2nd and even 3rd bet before the 1st has arrived and effectively then un-doing the green up and opening a new trade possibly in a much worse position

But the reasons it won't be firing at all is two fold;

1, You have a 'place bet triggers condition' is greater than 0.01
That's not a valid number ie, 1/10th of a bet can never trigger, you either trigger a bet once, twice, three times etc

2, On the 2nd green up rule you have the green all profit condition I advised above to be 'less than -0.01'
set as equal to 0.00

ie, even if the place bet triggers rule was taken out it would trigger only while your P/L was exactly £0.00 on the selection in row 2, so it would try and green up as soon as the rule became armed 1.5hrs after going in-play as you'd still have £0.00 at least until the back bet was matched on that selection

If you set it up as advised in the first reply with a
with a 'Close trade profit condition' is less than -0.01

and if betting late on in-play markets etc add a
Number of matched bets condition is greater than 0

Thats all you'll need

[jimibt]

It's not just Close On Trade Profit, I've tried other ways to close the trade, and it either never works, or is as equally sporadic as to whether or not it closes the trade.

I'm not specifically bothered whether it Greens or not, I just need to manage losses by closing the trade when it goes against me.

I assume you are using this on football markets as the rules are armed for 1.5hrs after they went in-play?

If so then first you'll need to use a longer re-arm time, this has to be longer than the in-play delay for whatever sport you are trading otherwise you'll be triggering a 2nd and even 3rd bet before the 1st has arrived and effectively then un-doing the green up and opening a new trade possibly in a much worse position

But the reasons it won't be firing at all is two fold;

1, You have a 'place bet triggers condition' is greater than 0.01
That's not a valid number ie, 1/10th of a bet can never trigger, you either trigger a bet once, twice, three times etc

2, On the 2nd green up rule you have the green all profit rule I advised above was less than -0.01
You have this set as equal to £0.00

ie, even if the place bet triggers rule was taken out it would trigger only while your P/L was exactly £0.00 on the selection in row 2, so it would try and green up as soon as the rule became armed 1.5hrs after going in-play as you'd still have £0.00 at least until the back bet triggered

If you set it up as advised in the first reply with a
with a 'Close trade profit condition' is less than -0.01

and if betting late on in-play markets etc add a
Number of matched bets condition is greater than 0

Thats all you'll need

Dallas -as ever, your attention to detail and the fact that you take the time to review cases such as this is nothing short of amazing. I'm sure the OP will be off and flying now...

[westbamtrading]

1, You have a 'place bet triggers condition' is greater than 0.01
Number of matched bets condition is greater than 0

Oops ... I remember you teaching me this a while ago. In my defence, I'm assuming that, in my starry eyed at 3:00, I thought this was Close Trade Profit rule that I was going to set @ -0.01. Sorry for that!

2, On the 2nd green up rule you have the green all profit condition I advised above to be 'less than -0.01'
set as equal to 0.00

If you set it up as advised in the first reply with a
with a 'Close trade profit condition' is less than -0.01

I had Less Than set @ -0.15 in the first week, to allow some market movement, sporadic firing. I tried Less Than -0.01 and Equal To both settings .... never fired ... not once … Green Up in General tab or Close Trade Selection with Greening in General tab … nothing!

Tennis.

From what I observe, Betdaq liquidity is about 1/3 of Betfair ... but even so, there's still enough liquidity in the market, for the rules to be triggered. I can't see why it wouldn't be.

Random Screenshot from yesterday

It's hardly a gappy market!

If so then first you'll need to use a longer re-arm time, this has to be longer than the in-play delay for whatever sport you are trading otherwise you'll be triggering a 2nd and even 3rd bet before the 1st has arrived and effectively then un-doing the green up and opening a new trade possibly in a much worse position

Had I not sat there watching the markets (on occasion) I would agree with you, but the result is still sporadic. At times, when I see that Green Up should trigger ... nothing .... and then the next market, it does ... with no real change in the market, no gaps that I can see of!

[westbamtrading]

Granted, this isn't a perfect example of liquidity in the market, and maybe this is an example in tennis when all the trades get pulled out, then when the action is happening, they go back in, and I've just caught it at the wrong moment, but again, this was Close Trade - Less Than -0.15 where no closing trade has gone in.




However, even when the lay price is way beyond -0.15 ... still nothing.

[westbamtrading]

On thing i haven't asked is; What is the condition/Rule Triggered on, Money at any given price, or Last Traded Price?

[Dallas]

In that first screenshot you have a 0.04p profit, so even setting the conditions as per my previous message it wouldn't be expected to trigger on that market unless it went out to 1.19 or above on the ladder (when your loss is less than -0.01)

By the looks of it the price dropped below your back bet condition of <1.20
So that bet was then placed at 1.15 as requested and matched at the best price of 1.17

and since then its shortened a few ticks more into a profit - for the rule to trigger when set up as advised all the back bet money below the £536 waiting at 1.26 would have to disappear - then 1.26 would be your best exit price with a loss of -0.07 which would be less than the -0.01 in your profit condition

[westbamtrading]

That was just a screenshot to show you the liquidity in the market!

[Dallas]

On thing i haven't asked is; What is the condition/Rule Triggered on, Money at any given price, or Last Traded Price?

The green up profit condition uses the best exit price so in your first screenshot all the back bet money below the £536 waiting at 1.26 would have to disappear -even if only for a fraction of a second then 1.26 would be your best exit price with a loss of -0.07 which would be less than the -0.01 in your profit condition and your rule would trigger