Honest Joe betting exchange

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Derek27
Posts: 23468
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

The sportsbook has been the front page of betfair.com for some time - you have to add /exchange or bookmark the page to get to the exchange.
vide0star
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:19 pm
Location: London

timbillington wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:38 am
This is spot on in my opinion.

An app/website interface (with the exchange as is underneath providing the prices) for people who just want to bet and get better prices would do wonders.

So, have an interface where there is no back/lay presented. Just all the events (like on 365) with all the best prices that the exchange currently has (with the commission already factored in to avoid that confusion to someone when they get a different price).

No chance at all that Betfair will ever do this of course, but I believe it would really make the site accessible to a lot more people which can only be a good thing.


Kai wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:19 pm
firlandsfarm wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:19 am
The Honest Joe website was blank this morning!
The concept of a betting exchange is too complex for the casual mind to understand, we're all aware of the selling points of an exchange but the casual user doesn't really care about better prices and more control over their bets, they much more prefer a fast slick betting platform that's easy to understand and even easier to use, with endless obscure markets to gamble their money away faster and with Ray Winstone constantly reminding them in the background that they made the right choice. The archaic Betfair website doesn't look appealing at all to a casual, just the opposite. I feel that any real innovation needs to happen in this area, because putting a cash out button with a slider on the website and sending out a weekly email about this remarkable feature is nowhere near enough. If someone can somehow simplify using the exchange to the point where literally anyone can use it, and market it in ways that it makes it fun to actually use, then I think they could potentially go far with that approach.
This is our plan. Coming soon to a mobile near you https://getsbk.com/
LinusP
Posts: 1871
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:45 pm

vide0star wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:27 pm
This is our plan. Coming soon to a mobile near you https://getsbk.com/
Any more information on this? Powered by the exchange? Will you ban people? Part of the API / have you opened it up yet?
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Kafkaesque
Posts: 886
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:20 am

ShaunWhite wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:28 am
Business like nature abhores a vacuum, so that means there's good reasons this area isn't flourishing. In fact there's many many reasons which are either inherent or symptomatic of the current climate.

It's often the case that people close to an industry, as we are, overestimate it's fascination or wider significance. Exchanges remain undoubtedly niche, invaraibly as dull as ditch water, and I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone to play them as a means of entertainment. Exchanges need losers and what an exchange offers in return for their hard-earned is frankly never going to measure up in what's a very crowded leisure and leisure gambling sector.

If the huge industry players with deep deep pockets clearly can't see a return from it, or even much of a future, then there isn't. And no amount of daydreaming about how we all know better than them, and what idiots they all must be will change that. If I had the time and no money, trying to re-invent an already wobbly wheel would be on the same list as 'relaunch betamax', purists will love it, but nobody else will give a damn.

The only selling point exchanges have is 'value', and frankly blowing your money in 19 bets instead of 20 is a crap selling point for a crap experience.
Valid points. Although - and I might just be reinforcing your point on being to close to the industry - from my vantage point I struggle to get my head around there being room for as many players (on the bookie side of things) in the gambling/betting industry, and no room for an innovative exchange offering a complex product for traders, which doubles a very simple app with a backing selections set-up for punters.

To that end for what it's worth....
Kai wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:19 pm
We all have ideas on how to improve things but even if a company would somehow see an exchange as more profitable and easier to run than a sportsbook, the exchange would need a large influx of casual users (for lack of a better word) and losers to really grow. The concept of a betting exchange is too complex for the casual mind to understand, we're all aware of the selling points of an exchange but the casual user doesn't really care about better prices and more control over their bets, they much more prefer a fast slick betting platform that's easy to understand and even easier to use, with endless obscure markets to gamble their money away faster and with Ray Winstone constantly reminding them in the background that they made the right choice. The archaic Betfair website doesn't look appealing at all to a casual, just the opposite. I feel that any real innovation needs to happen in this area, because putting a cash out button with a slider on the website and sending out a weekly email about this remarkable feature is nowhere near enough. If someone can somehow simplify using the exchange to the point where literally anyone can use it, and market it in ways that it makes it fun to actually use, then I think they could potentially go far with that approach.
You're likely correct in your assessment when it comes to average punters, to the tune of well past 50% of them, but given the size of the market as a whole, there's still a large potentiel client base, who be willing to spend a bit more time than just popping onto the Bet365 app and taking whatever price is on for what they feel will happen. As long as the extra time is kept at a minimum.

My take would be to be up front about when and how often the exchange offers the best prices. Betfair has been adament long enough that the exchange provides better prices that it shouldn't be a issue.

A betting portion of the exchange app would show this only:

- Current backing price on the exchange, and absolutely key, with it being minus commission to make is transparent.
- Current backing price across 5-10 majors bookies.

And would offer to:
- Back now at exchange price
- Don't back now but do so automatically if price reaches X
- Show rough percentages of prices reacing various levels (based on stats of how much various markets move)
- Notification if prices reaches various levels, higher than now but lower than the above point of automated bet placement (and the option to take said price with one click, if still available)
- Back automatically at any price above X, if there's still not bet placed X minutes before kickoff

Your average joe is plagued by FOMO, if they're "proven correct" by the result and they've missed out on having a punt, which is why the asking for a better price, despite sounding brilliant in theory, never worked practically as a betting practice. The above would combate that, and would give punters a bit a extra excitement in seeing if they're going to get an even better price for what they're sure will happen. Nevermind that they'll have zero clue that there's almost always a reason counting against them, causing the fact that they're getting a better price.
rostov
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:45 pm

LinusP wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:06 am
vide0star wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:27 pm
This is our plan. Coming soon to a mobile near you https://getsbk.com/
Any more information on this? Powered by the exchange? Will you ban people? Part of the API / have you opened it up yet?
Do bears shit in the woods?
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Kai
Posts: 6092
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:21 pm

Kafkaesque wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:55 am
Kai wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:19 pm
We all have ideas on how to improve things but even if a company would somehow see an exchange as more profitable and easier to run than a sportsbook, the exchange would need a large influx of casual users (for lack of a better word) and losers to really grow. The concept of a betting exchange is too complex for the casual mind to understand, we're all aware of the selling points of an exchange but the casual user doesn't really care about better prices and more control over their bets, they much more prefer a fast slick betting platform that's easy to understand and even easier to use, with endless obscure markets to gamble their money away faster and with Ray Winstone constantly reminding them in the background that they made the right choice. The archaic Betfair website doesn't look appealing at all to a casual, just the opposite. I feel that any real innovation needs to happen in this area, because putting a cash out button with a slider on the website and sending out a weekly email about this remarkable feature is nowhere near enough. If someone can somehow simplify using the exchange to the point where literally anyone can use it, and market it in ways that it makes it fun to actually use, then I think they could potentially go far with that approach.
A betting portion of the exchange app would show this only:

- Current backing price on the exchange, and absolutely key, with it being minus commission to make is transparent.
- Current backing price across 5-10 majors bookies.

And would offer to:
- Back now at exchange price
- Don't back now but do so automatically if price reaches X
- Show rough percentages of prices reacing various levels (based on stats of how much various markets move)
- Notification if prices reaches various levels, higher than now but lower than the above point of automated bet placement (and the option to take said price with one click, if still available)
- Back automatically at any price above X, if there's still not bet placed X minutes before kickoff

Your average joe is plagued by FOMO, if they're "proven correct" by the result and they've missed out on having a punt, which is why the asking for a better price, despite sounding brilliant in theory, never worked practically as a betting practice. The above would combate that, and would give punters a bit a extra excitement in seeing if they're going to get an even better price for what they're sure will happen. Nevermind that they'll have zero clue that there's almost always a reason counting against them, causing the fact that they're getting a better price.
That's actually more or less what I had in mind. Just provide your customers with a fun interface with cool features that even a simpleton could use, but also provide the advanced customers with more advanced exchange options which they can turn on if they wish to do so.

Honestly how hard could that be? :mrgreen:
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Euler
Posts: 24700
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

I think skinning the exchange is exactly the right thing to do, but.....

This process of skinning the exchange was exactly how the Betfair sportsbook started out. The concept was the exchange provided the cash out coverage. You place a bet on the sportsbook and the internal process cashed out on the exchange. Also they had this concept of price rush where if you placed a bet on the sportsbook and it was better on the exchange it just got matched on the exchange. Perfect, all problems solved.

First the started doing the cash out themselves realising they could just take the risk and grab some extra margin, then the price rush disappeared and eventually it just become a sportsbook with no link to the exchange at all.

Mug punters deserve their name and reputation.
vide0star
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:19 pm
Location: London

rostov wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:48 pm
LinusP wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:06 am
vide0star wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:27 pm
This is our plan. Coming soon to a mobile near you https://getsbk.com/
Any more information on this? Powered by the exchange? Will you ban people? Part of the API / have you opened it up yet?
Do bears shit in the woods?
SBK is powered by the exchange
We will not ban people.
The API is connected to the exchange so yes it's connected to SBK.
The API is being rolled out little by little. We have 50 API customers right now.
Bears shit sometimes in the woods, sometimes not.
vide0star
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:19 pm
Location: London

Euler wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:03 pm
I think skinning the exchange is exactly the right thing to do, but.....

eventually it just become a sportsbook with no link to the exchange at all.
You probably know better than me but my understanding was BF SB was never a skin. The tech (and pricing) always came from Amelco. The "price rush" was a tenuous software link bridging the Amelco sportsbook and the BF exchange.

IMO, I don't think BF ever gave the model a go. AFAIK, we are the first to try to skin an exchange for the casual market.
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Naffman
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Jesus just seen someone point out that if there is a non-runner then all bets will be void :P

More like Stupid Joe
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Derek27
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Location: UK

Naffman wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:59 pm
Jesus just seen someone point out that if there is a non-runner then all bets will be void :P

More like Stupid Joe
At least they won't have many bets to void. ;)
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Dallas
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Naffman wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:59 pm
Jesus just seen someone point out that if there is a non-runner then all bets will be void :P

More like Stupid Joe
All in all this is a very underfunded and rushed project
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Derek27
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Location: UK

Dallas wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:54 pm
Naffman wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:59 pm
Jesus just seen someone point out that if there is a non-runner then all bets will be void :P

More like Stupid Joe
All in all this is a very underfunded and rushed project
... by somebody who probably hasn't used an exchange before!
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ilovepizza82
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Perhaps it wouldnt have been so bad from the very start if he had not implemented so many hidden costs.
He advertises 1% comm and "no hidden costs" and many people were actually looking forward to the openning but then when you go there you see horror things like:

- Deposits: Debit and credit card: 2.5% + £2.50
- Withdrawals: Debit and credit card: £1
:D
Dude...like...seriously ?
The costs might not be that scarry but it does scare people away.
Im surprised he doesnt charge just for using his website. ;)
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Derek27
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Location: UK

Just looked to see if there was any liquidity - a non-runner in the last at Haydock would have voided any matched bets if anyone placed a bet. :lol:
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